2008 Senior Circuit A&M Friday, May 16 - Sunday, May 18

I hope there is no backlash against laser-toting masters crossover swimmers - the pool length issue would probably never have surfaced but for David's laser measure. Then again, 49.97 is pretty unambiguous. It is what it is, and it ain't 50 meters. I have always been amazed that USA swimming has not been as strict on the whole pool measurement thing. It seems that would be a standard item on any big meet's check-off list. And I think that anytime a bulkhead is used, that the initial measurement before a session is more critical than measuring the 2 outside lanes and a middle lane at the end of a session. Does anyone know - who actually footed the bill when the Stanford pool came up short before Masters Worlds?

he swam the 50 free as well. Interesting that his last race was the 50 free, and appearantly he aged up from age 47 to age 48 right before that race because his age changed in the results. Maybe the folks in college station have trouble with the calculation? Gig 'em!

I am extremely disappointed in USA swimming in this matter. I am a registered master swimmer but I also had two HS kids swimming at the meet. One made her first Junior Nationals cut and the other made several A cuts that would have enabled him to swim a full complement of events at Sr Circuit 4 in Austin in 3 weeks. My daughter is 15 and he is 17; both will be crushed when they hear about this. I did a quick calculation and the delta for a 200 m swim is probably around .07 seconds which is hardly worth punishing these kids for. From my recollection, no national cuts were within that margin so USA swimming could have made a good faith decision to honor the times. Pool conditions are so different from starting blocks, to indoor/outdoor, etc etc that this is a travesty. My son quit swimming for two years when he was quite frustrated and played water polo. He grew, got stronger and decided to start swimming again a year ago and has been improving dramatically. This decision goes contrary to the purpose of USA swimming. We have a hard enough time keeping kids in the sport, so let's not work against them. I could keep going, but I am just sick to my stomach over my two and those that trained hard, traveled far, spent lots of money to find their efforts overturned by .03 meters. Yes, that is short but we need to keep a bigger picture in mind. Not a bunch of administrators forgetting how hard this sport is and how delicate the psyche is. F

It seems like USMS is much more diligent about pool measurement than USA Swimming is. There's no excuse for not measuring the pool immediately before the meet, if not before every session. What's going to happen to kids who made Trials cuts at this meet? I know it's harsh, but they absolutely shouldn't count and it's all the meet hosts' fault. Also "Spindrift" is my new favorite name in swimming! :)

Masters swimmer David Guthrie swam the 50, 100 & 200 breastroke 32, 1:09, 2:34

I am extremely disappointed in USA swimming in this matter. I am a registered master swimmer but I also had two HS kids swimming at the meet. One made her first Junior Nationals cut and the other made several A cuts that would have enabled him to swim a full complement of events at Sr Circuit 4 in Austin in 3 weeks. My daughter is 15 and he is 17; both will be crushed when they hear about this. I did a quick calculation and the delta for a 200 m swim is probably around .07 seconds which is hardly worth punishing these kids for. From my recollection, no national cuts were within that margin so USA swimming could have made a good faith decision to honor the times. Pool conditions are so different from starting blocks, to indoor/outdoor, etc etc that this is a travesty. My son quit swimming for two years when he was quite frustrated and played water polo. He grew, got stronger and decided to start swimming again a year ago and has been improving dramatically. This decision goes contrary to the purpose of USA swimming. We have a hard enough time keeping kids in the sport, so let's not work against them. I could keep going, but I am just sick to my stomach over my two and those that trained hard, traveled far, spent lots of money to find their efforts overturned by .03 meters. Yes, that is short but we need to keep a bigger picture in mind. Not a bunch of administrators forgetting how hard this sport is and how delicate the psyche is. F Welcome to the world of USA Swimming. There are countless times where decisions they make never take into account the actual athletes. Here is another example of where they forgot WHY THEY EVEN EXIST. I am sorry for your kids, I am sure there will be many more stories like yours. Just plain ridiculous. Heck if they hadn't had a USMS swimmer there with a laser sight, they never would have known. Just shows how idiotic the organization can be.

Yes it is TAMUs fault,but USA S bears some responsibility for not being at least as stringent as USMS.:notworking:By the way this has happened a lot in Masters when our rule was just being implemented.I had 3 Top Ten swims wiped out in one meet and an AA and Zone Record time wiped out in another:violin:.The first the pool had been remodeled and re-tiled and was 2 cm short,the second the bulkhead was not installed properly and it was 1 cm short.If USA S wanted to be fair(HA) they should allow the cuts times.

I think it would be reasonable to let kids keep their cuts that they earned at the pool this weekend, but not to honor any records that were set. The cuts don't mean much--except an opportunity to swim the race again in a pool that is the right length I think you make a good point here, Morgan.

I wonder whether it's a "final decision" by USA Swimming. I disagree that there was so much more at stake at Texas A&M just because it was a higher level meet. I could care less if it was a on day local masters meet, a C little splashers meet or the Olympics; if it were me or my kid, I'd be totally PO'd!! Last post on swimmingworldmagazine.com cites an email address for Mark Schubert to voice complaints. How can USA Swimming not honor swims from a meet that appears to me to be in compliance with their own existing rules? Unless I am missing something, A&M wasn't required to measure the pool before the meet. That is no excuse for a short pool, but does anyone know what the exact rule is - I bet there isn't one except that the host make a "best effort" to make sure the pool is the right length and then measure only at the end of the session for a record (USA swimming rule). If USA Swimming maintains their decision, then couldn't the arguement be that any times in the SWIMS database be erased if it was done at a meet, any meet, where a bulkhead was used and no pool measurement taken? See where this can go??? Not a good thing. Let the times count from TSC#3 as chalk it up as lession learned BY USA SWIMMING - hey, they could learn something from US masters!! See: www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx Way, way, way below the standard for USMS!!! Way to go USMS for these rules - the integrity of top tens and masters records is way beyond SWIMS. USA Swimming isn't known for it's customer service, but it does have a grievance procedure. I think it's section/article/chapter 4 in the rules book. If I were an affected parent I would certainly consider this just on principle. It isn't "causing waves" or "being a pain"; it is a right for every USA Swimming member, and the only way to get a direct answer. USA Swimming can't respond to a blog, but it can and must to any formal grievance. At worst, you'll get the same answer. I've been telling this story to my children, especially since I was close to going, had it not been for their karate tournament, Pump-It-UP party and Hurricane Harbor day. If not already presented at convention, I think the top ten committee should change the rule for bulkheads to require (vs. recommend) an INITIAL measurement of all lanes prior to the start of competition. Can't go this year - I took my turn last year! But the most surprising of all - no Aggie jokes posted?!!

I have missed out on about 10 USMS top ten swims. That is why I am now the top ten recorder for North Texas and one of the most anal people when it comes to pool measurement and championing our LMSC to buy a laser. I'm also an Aggie!!! Back to the initial thread topic - maybe some good news for crossover masters is that if USA swimming adopts "the bulkhead measurement rules", then times can count for USMS swimmers since the measurements would be done by the meet host. That would be sooooooooo awesome!!! Ande started a thread on the next TSC meet; I hope all the kids (and masters) swim really, really fast!! Ande too!!!!! Still waiting for any Aggie jokes...