2008 Santa Clara International Invitational May 15 - 18

I think the Masters Swimming tent is big enough for 27 year olds pursuing their passion for swimming and for forty-something parents with birthday parties to attend. I think it's probably a net benefit to have an enthusiastic talented swimmer practicing and competing among us, chances are that once trials are over some of that passion will go into enriching the masters scene in one way or another. Never said he wasn't welcome (the tent is not big enough I think was your statement to be exact) nor did JH or Hoch. They just question if that represents the best Masters Swimmer in that age group, and I question if he is a true representation of what Masters Swimming is about. The same issues were brought up about Dara Torres which I think is a legitimate question. (And no, this is not an implication that I think she is doping because I don't) Do you know if he does train with a Masters Team for a fact? I don't know, that is why I ask that question.

Someone once said: "Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." :2cents:

I think our friend from Sweden summed up how I view the distinction between USMS & USS swimming. FINA has drawn a line saying that worlds records for masters need to be set in masters meets...and I think that is 100% fair. I also think Hoch's point about the time I think is being taken a little out of context...if we really want to merge USMS & USS along with all the other International swim federations and then start tracking all those times and counting as USMS/FINA masters world records then I think it takes away from what I feel is the spirit of masters. For all of us USMS folks no one except parents at USS meets cares if old farts show up and (in my case) embarrass themselves or (in John's case) their kids. If you care about your rankings/records in USMS swim/support USMS, if you care about your rankings in USS swim/support USS...or both...but IMHO its oil and water to mix. Kevin, go forth and kick ass at trials...(hope you wear some USMS gear) and feel free to come hang with us USMS folks at some of the regional meets this fall that have open seeding...I think you'll find plenty of competition!

Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records. Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age. In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not. Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes. Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone. Amen! It's slightly off-putting and elitist when someone ranked #1 in the world declares himself or herself "not fast," thereby implicitly insulting 99.9% of masters swimmers, and then implies an official "masters" record (or possibly any masters record under age 60) could be unworthy or somehow tainted because a USS swimmer is faster. So what? We're masters. (I didn't say "It's only masters" because we have people of incredible dedication.) Take a PR lesson from speedsters Chris or (S)he-Beast or others and applaud all the fine individual accomplishments of our masters swimmers of all ages and speeds. Good luck Kevin!

Good luck to anyone swimming fast enough to trial! As for what makes a masters swimmer...anyone that gets in the water for health, fun or competition--motivation matters not, participation does. Denigrating (or passing judegement) on those faster or slower than oneself is truely not what masters is about. I may be slower than many of the posters here but folks tell me how fast I am in the pool (I then explain just exactly how fast I am compared to the top USMS swimmers). Speed is relative...and somewhat meaningless beyond your direct peer group.

Thank you everybody, and back on topic: Who is actually attending or swimming this weekend at the Santa Clara Invite? I would enjoy meeting some of you while I'm in CA :)

I know. Lia Neal is incredible. I've accepted the fact I can get "beat by a girl," but a 12 year old girl? That hurts!

Is she the one who swims at Asphalt Green and was featured in the NY TImes a few weeks ago? I love the NY Times; they have swimming related articles about every month, and great build up stories for the Olympics!! (and the most interesting people are featured in the obituaries).

Yes, that's her. Paul

Thanks for letting me know what forum I'm on, any idea why this topic was started if it has no relevance to "most everyone here"? Heck Kevin, most of are old enough we've already forgotten what started this whole thing.:doh: Some of us have even forgotten what our point was to begin with. Just go and swim well and remember it's going to be HOT this week and weekend so plan accordingly.