2008 Santa Clara International Invitational May 15 - 18

I think the Masters Swimming tent is big enough for 27 year olds pursuing their passion for swimming and for forty-something parents with birthday parties to attend. I think it's probably a net benefit to have an enthusiastic talented swimmer practicing and competing among us, chances are that once trials are over some of that passion will go into enriching the masters scene in one way or another. Besides, we all know the real question that needs to be answered: what suit was he wearing when he did that 57.00?:lmao:

Good for him, but the whole "I broke a World Record" story that did not count" must be a joke. I am too lazy to check out all the 25-29 swimmers in the world, but I am sure there is somebody in that age-group going a 54+ in the 100 Back. Not sure where he is training - but honestly, I barely consider myself a good Masters swimmer and I am turning 40 this year.

Is this a serious comparison? A mid 40s swimmer to a 27 year old? Pretty weak argument there. Sam, it's obviously not a comparison. Seems like your the one with the weak point here. Read the post fer cryin' out loud. I was saying that the Masters community is proud of both Dennis Baker AND Kevin.

Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records. Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age. In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not. Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes. Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone.

Anybody making US Olympic Trials is a great swimmer. There is no question about that. But I have a major problem with somebody complaining about not getting a record for his age group when there are probably 100 people in the same age group that have done a faster time in the past. When I look at the World Records for Masters, I look at Richard Abrahams records and know that he is the fastest 60 year old in the world. Nobody can say that about Kevin. So even, if Kevin swims breaks the record this season at a Masters meet, I know (and he knows) that the current World record holder in 100 Back is in the same age group.

How's it work with age group swimming these days? If I remember correctly (a big "If" there), when I was a kid, if an age grouper broke a NAG record in a senior meet, it wasn't counted as a NAG record.

Sam, it's obviously not a comparison. Seems like your the one with the weak point here. Read the post fer cryin' out loud. I was saying that the Masters community is proud of both Dennis Baker AND Kevin. Ok, Brian you win. We are proud of all of our recordbreakers even if they didn't break a record according to FINA rules and there are other people the same age that are faster. They have a USMS card, swam in a few meets (if that many) and so they are record breakers. I also guess that Baker is not nearly as good as Doak since he hasn't made trials cuts yet according to the logic here. I am with you Hoch, what those folks are doing is amazing. Good thing they have a USMS card, otherwise what they are doing doesn't nearly matter as much as someone who does.

All the posts saying "he's not really that good" Who has said that?

"He's really not that good" as was accused by Kirk are still unfounded. I still don't see anywhere that was said. OK, no one said that exactly, that was just the general tenor of some of the posts I read, IMO. For example Ande said "there's plenty of 25 - 29 year olds who obliterate the backstroke times he's done." A true statement, but isn't it awfully close to saying "he's not really that good?"

Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records. Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age. In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not. Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes. Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone. Excellent way to end a thread such as this one.