After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
I agree that the tech suits are beneficial. I just can't rationalize the benefit versus comfort issue in the events I care about (400 IM mainly). The benefit might be more for some than others and in some circumstances such as IM given a persons body type it might not make much of a difference at all. I am still shocked that Park did not wear a full tech suit in the 200 free and was second. If the full LZR is worth half a second per 100, then Park would have gone 1:43.8? Holy crap. Maybe Phelps' world record will be challenged if Park just makes some equipment changes.
I am wondering if anyone would be up for a masters tech suit semi-scientific comparison next year at SCY Nationals. Break it up into 2 classes of swimmers:
1. Control group - Those that wore speedo briefs or an older generation tech suit without bouyancy benefits, etc. in SCY Nationals last year and will wear the same or similar suit next year. No moving up from briefs to a non-bouyancy tech suit allowed in this group. You have to stay with the same suit that you swam in last year. I guess we could allow people that wore a LZR or B70 last year who are wearing the same in 2009 to be in this group too. I am thinking that there is just some natural improvement here due to technique or training that we will see, but maybe I am wrong.
2. Unlimited class - Those that wore speedo briefs or an older generation tech suit in SCY Nationals last year, but this year they wear LZR, Blue 70, or any similar bouyancy aided suit. Wearing multiple suits is also allowed - the more the better.
I guess you don't necessarily have to have swim at SCY Nationals, but you must have comparable meets that you tapered for each year.
We pick a few events that draw a decent number of swimmers such as the 50 Free, 100 Free, 100 IM, or others where we would have a good representation. Swimmers would have to have trained seriously and reasonably equally for both nationals with the intent of at least going as fast in 2009 as 2008. You can train anyway you want with the intent on going fast. Everyone can make whatever technique, turn, or other improvements they would like.
I am just curious what the numbers would look like and how much the suit improvement varies by person/event/age. If the numbers turn out to be higher than half a second per 100, you might even convince me to give up comfort for a time drop.
There were not too many of the latest bouyancy aided suits at SCY nationals last year, but I imagine we will see a lot more in 2009. So, this might be the best opportunity to do such a comparison as long as there are a reasonable number of people that don't upgrade suits and stay in the control group.
I volunteer for the control group. Anyone else willing to participate for the sake of quantifying the LZR/B70 benefits at the masters level? Just need what suit you wore in 2008, your 2008 times for the 50 free, 100 free, and 100 IM, or other events and whether you will be in the control group or unlimited group. You can change your mind regarding your group selection anytime between now and SCY Nationals.
If the time improvement difference between the groups is more than half a second per 100 on average, I will contribute the cost of a B70 to the bar tab on the last night of Nationals. Any other wagers? Maybe if the difference is less than .4 or .35 seconds per 100, then the unlimited group buys for the control group or vice versa? No sand baggers in the control group! I assume anyone that buys a new LZR or B70 to be in the unlimited group will not be a sand bagger.
Anyone in?
Tim
I agree that the tech suits are beneficial. I just can't rationalize the benefit versus comfort issue in the events I care about (400 IM mainly). The benefit might be more for some than others and in some circumstances such as IM given a persons body type it might not make much of a difference at all. I am still shocked that Park did not wear a full tech suit in the 200 free and was second. If the full LZR is worth half a second per 100, then Park would have gone 1:43.8? Holy crap. Maybe Phelps' world record will be challenged if Park just makes some equipment changes.
I am wondering if anyone would be up for a masters tech suit semi-scientific comparison next year at SCY Nationals. Break it up into 2 classes of swimmers:
1. Control group - Those that wore speedo briefs or an older generation tech suit without bouyancy benefits, etc. in SCY Nationals last year and will wear the same or similar suit next year. No moving up from briefs to a non-bouyancy tech suit allowed in this group. You have to stay with the same suit that you swam in last year. I guess we could allow people that wore a LZR or B70 last year who are wearing the same in 2009 to be in this group too. I am thinking that there is just some natural improvement here due to technique or training that we will see, but maybe I am wrong.
2. Unlimited class - Those that wore speedo briefs or an older generation tech suit in SCY Nationals last year, but this year they wear LZR, Blue 70, or any similar bouyancy aided suit. Wearing multiple suits is also allowed - the more the better.
I guess you don't necessarily have to have swim at SCY Nationals, but you must have comparable meets that you tapered for each year.
We pick a few events that draw a decent number of swimmers such as the 50 Free, 100 Free, 100 IM, or others where we would have a good representation. Swimmers would have to have trained seriously and reasonably equally for both nationals with the intent of at least going as fast in 2009 as 2008. You can train anyway you want with the intent on going fast. Everyone can make whatever technique, turn, or other improvements they would like.
I am just curious what the numbers would look like and how much the suit improvement varies by person/event/age. If the numbers turn out to be higher than half a second per 100, you might even convince me to give up comfort for a time drop.
There were not too many of the latest bouyancy aided suits at SCY nationals last year, but I imagine we will see a lot more in 2009. So, this might be the best opportunity to do such a comparison as long as there are a reasonable number of people that don't upgrade suits and stay in the control group.
I volunteer for the control group. Anyone else willing to participate for the sake of quantifying the LZR/B70 benefits at the masters level? Just need what suit you wore in 2008, your 2008 times for the 50 free, 100 free, and 100 IM, or other events and whether you will be in the control group or unlimited group. You can change your mind regarding your group selection anytime between now and SCY Nationals.
If the time improvement difference between the groups is more than half a second per 100 on average, I will contribute the cost of a B70 to the bar tab on the last night of Nationals. Any other wagers? Maybe if the difference is less than .4 or .35 seconds per 100, then the unlimited group buys for the control group or vice versa? No sand baggers in the control group! I assume anyone that buys a new LZR or B70 to be in the unlimited group will not be a sand bagger.
Anyone in?
Tim
