Always win, swim for fun!

abc - I was trying to be sarcastic but it didn't come through at all. Your first post makes it sound like "why race at all if you can't compete for a world record?" I wasn't actually asking for someone to give me any goals. I know what my goals are. They are not about setting any records because that ain't likely to happen. In the meantime I train, race 2-3 times a year, and enjoy the idea for now that I'm still getting a bit faster over time instead of slowing down. I'm 49 so I wonder when I'm fighting to avoid slowing down instead of getting faster. I certainly don't want any participant ribbons. I buy a t-shirt for that. I don't know if you are a parent or not - but for some kids, at an early age, the participant ribbon has some value. A 6 or 7 yr. old understands winning a race, but they may not properly comprehend losing. Sometimes that little ribbon is just enough to not complain about going to swim practice in the morning. At some point - it has to stop and the kid starts to realize that if they want an award they have to earn it by doing more than just participating.

Scyfreestyler, do you think Chuck Norris would agree with handing out “Participant” ribbons? I guess it’s possible, and who knows, maybe he does at his annual KarateFest. I don’t think that I am saying the same thing as JMiller either. He stated, “being the absolute freaky best, that concept is dysfunctional.” Why is it dysfunctional for some of the people on this board, especially when it comes to their age group? I don’t have a problem with it, would Chuck Norris? Chuck Norris does not hand out ribbons to participants, although, he puts tags on their toes. :toohurt: But seriously, aiming for a Top 10 USMS time is simply not a reasonable goal for most of the USMS membership. There is nothing wrong with having some lofty goals but it's also good to have a dose of reality once in a while. I compete a few times a year and am content to see some improvement in my times. What other swimmers in my age group are doing is of little meaning to me.

I definitely don't believe that everyone is better off for just trying. Hmm. I think most people are.

This is always an interesting discussion. How do we balance the harsh realities of winning/losing against the joy of participation? After all, if we are mediocre in any activity, it is that rare individual who perseveres and ultimately excels. This is especially true for children who, at the younger ages (8-10) do need to have the adults that surround them keep up a positive attitude. And let's not forget, only 25% of those that excel in 12 and under swimming do the same as they get older. So, early success does not mean a great career just as being an average swimmer does not mean that big improvements cannot occur. Think about the difficulty of swimming some of these strokes. Just getting the arms out in butterfly in rhythm with the dolphin kick is pretty daunting. Then throw in a few backstroke flip turns and breastroke DQ's and you can have a pretty frustrated little kid who might need that simple ribbon to keep him/her going until the next meet. My own daughter is a good case. She is 8 and has been swimming for a little over a year. She is very proficient technically and has hit blue times in most of her events. Yet, that has now pushed her into the final heats with the fastest in her age group in Southern California and she is typically 7th or 8th. The ribbons are placed in each swimmer's folder a few days after the meets and she typically forgets to even look for them. She is vaguely aware of how she placed, but could care less about her ribbons. She is also vaguely aware of her times but could not tell you her times if she was asked. She is mainly concerned with how she felt and how she swam in each race as opposed to whether she "placed". So, any award, except for a huge trophy that glittered in the sun, probably is of little value in her world. I just tell her that if she takes care of the little details of her stroke technique, then the big things will work themselves out. I just want her to learn the strokes properly so that when her mind and body can handle it, then she can start to really push for whatever lofty goals she desires. The danger of stressing winning a heat too much with the youngsters is that they will simply "spin" and thrash about as their technique flies out the window with the hope that some Hurculean effort will get them to the wall first. It is much easier to correct stroke flaws and reinforce good habits now as opposed to waiting until they become more ingrained at a later age. As she gets older and if she continues to compete, I expect that my daughter will become acutely aware of her times and start to set goals and want to get on that podium. Swimming is pretty unique in that it is time based. You either make the cut or you don't. You either out touch the other swimmer or you don't. So, it's quite black and white. At some point, I expect that she will want to win. But I want her to come to that decision on her terms, not mine. In the end, the sport of swimming is probably more of a progression that begins as fun and evolves into the joy of competing and doing well that in turn fuels the desire to excel and perfect technique in the daily grind of workouts. So, the short answer to this convoluted response is that most kids do not care about the participatory ribbons. At some point, and sooner than later, they will figure out how they rank on the pecking order. It is our job as parents to try to put it in perspective so that they continue to enjoy the sport. As far as the rest of us? For the elite swimmers, I would assume that they all want to win and that is why they devote their lives to the sport. With sponsorship money and all that comes with a world ranking, I expect nothing less. Me? I just joined Masters a few months ago after over 30 years out of the pool. I'm just happy to be getting back into swimming shape. Competition means little to me now. That is for my kids and the endless meets that we now go to and help set up and time assist in timing and so on. Rob

Giving out heat winner ribbons is a much needed reward for the throngs of kids who may never know what it's like to "medal". As far as adults... Understanding one's ability and then raising the bar a little higher is the pathway to achieving a goal ...and the ultimate thrill of reaching it. Each year the bar gets re-established. Maybe the goal isn't necessarily a time. Maybe it's just to be consistent in staying active...or just to compete in one meet each year. And if we're lucky enough to do this as 80 or 90 year olds...maybe it's just to outlive the competition. Everyone has their own benchmark to success.

I completely agree with Chris' prior statement. I'm not a fan of the everyone is talented, special, smart, beautiful, gifted, amazing, etc. I guess they call it the "self esteem" theory for kids. You're not a good parent anymore unless you send your kid to speech therapy and small motors skills therapy at age 3 ... Yes, kids need encouragement and nurturing, but life is competitive and tough. Winning is fun, and not everyone wins in school, sports or life. For the very young just learning to swim, I think participation ribbons can help. My summer swim club doesn't have those, but we have "PB" ribbons. When a child does a personal best, they get a special ribbon. I know my then 6 year old was always happy to get her ribbons last summer even when she didn't win the race. As a master swimmer, it seems ridiculous to posit that you should "choose another sport" if you can't be world ranked. Masters swimming allows myriad time-based goals and is a great sport to participate in as you age. I'm not going to quit just because Peg beat me in the 50 fly last weekend ... Our swim club gives out different colored beads for PB's, BB's, A, AA, 500, 1000, 1650. Different colors for each. They wear them with a little leather string attached to their parkas. Gives the kids something to shoot for and be proud of, even if they are not dominating their age group.

I was a track cyclist in another lifetime, and definitely not Provincial Team caliber, but it was still worth doing. To be out in the sun on a beautiful summer evening, catching up on club gossip in the infield while cheering (or good-naturedly heckling) riders in other categories. To go eyeballs-out and feel like I couldn't possibly have ridden any faster and pushed my previous limits, even if it didn't get me caught up with the break-a-way. To spend long Sunday afternoons working on my standing starts until I felt they were "just right", or at least "so much better". To enjoy the feeling of a healthy fit body working the way it should. One year when attendance was poor for the Provincial Championships, I got the bronze in the 3000m individual pursuit. It taught me an important lesson - if you don't show up for the race, you definitely won't get a medal. Sure, there were at least half a dozen other women in the province who could have easily beat me, but they didn't bother to come. I don't take my body for granted any more, not since the car accident that got me into swimming in the first place. My injuries weren't that serious, but they made me realize that being a top level athlete or having a perfect figure are not as important as just being able to move and be active. Anything else is just icing on the cake. I'll probably still come in dead last in that open water race that I plan to do again this year, but if I'm better than last year, I'll be happy.

Our swim club gives out different colored beads for PB's, BB's, A, AA, 500, 1000, 1650. Different colors for each. They wear them with a little leather string attached to their parkas. Gives the kids something to shoot for and be proud of, even if they are not dominating their age group. I know I liked beads when i was younger and having given them out also, they love em, its like something to collect, its a good (yet different) motivator... a competition in its self. And with beads everyone can take part... and the funny part is i never though to apply the beads to swimming. Good idea..

Maybe Fort and I are twins separated at birth, scary. Other than the small kids, or shrimps are we call them in our summer league (6 and under), I firmly believe that showering kids with trophies, ribbons, etc just cheapens the accomplishments, especially those that actually do win. About 20 minutes of every event these days is the awards ceremony. Heat winner, place ribbons and time achievements are cool but is it really necessary to give every kid a trophy? If you have a kid who brings the heat at meets and works out hard to help their team achieve, it can be a little frustrating to see the kid who never shows up and could care less needing a u-haul for all the swag they are also given. There are obvious exceptions. My 4 year old lived for that participant ribbon last summer and it was a big deal. As a parent, I'm making an exception for her.

Keeping the focus on personal improvement is a great way to hold the "passion" without making comparisons to others. That concept of winning, only being the absolute freaky best, that concept is dysfunctional. This is an interesting comment to me, because I certainly agree with the idea of personal improvement and I'd speculate that most world class swimmers are swimming against their own times. I do, however, feel there's a place for the desire to "be the absolute freaky best," and do not find that desire inherently dysfunctional. I think the problem arises when a swimmer/competitor allows that desire to steer the direction of their thinking and focus, i.e. they obsess with the competition and stop focusing on their own improvement, and worst case situation, look for ways to "cheat" or sabotage their competition. But, many competitors in sport and life are of the racehorse mentality, in that they perform better when they have someone to chase. I myself enjoy competition and use it as a vehicle for self-improvement. I don't enjoy losing a race, but if my time improves then that's great and hopefully I'll get the opportunity to race the person who beat me in a year's time. :bouncing: