The Demise of Mens Swimming in the US

It takes a lot of commitment, hard work, patience and focus to be an athlete on any level and more and more it seems fewer kids (mostly boys) have it. The same for these games...but the games allow suspension of reality and immediate heroic status among one's peers without the sweat. It's tough work trying to get kids to do a bit of all things in health proportions... Maybe someone will invent a video game you can play in the water while swimming. Efficent strokes and speed can be measured to generate some sort of progression towards a goal...just ruminating..."Beat the Geek" seems like a good title for anyone needing some input ;)

2. Another reason I see in my region for the decrease in swimming is the reluctance to build indoor facilities. It used to be that when you built a high school, you included a pool in the construction cost. Now, the school districts have to take into account litigation when building a pool, and expensive tax based bond issues. You can have as many gyms, fieldhouses, fields as you want, but when you build a pool, the scare is there that someone could die from drowning. It's not worth the cost. There are several municipal rec centers around, but as most of you know, the time at these facilities is monopolized by the community programs. This is happening where I live, too. I just noticed another trend here - the "YMCA Express". We're about to get two of them. They're advertised as "just like a YMCA, but without the pool." Anna Lea

Geek, I have news for you..... This forum is ALL ABOUT GRUMPY OLD MEN...... ie. it's MASTERS SWIMMING. Let me translate that to you.......... We are old ! As for the 1970s....... Dude...... you are trespassing on hollowed ground with nasty comments about Fleetwood Mac. Evil Smith and I will pick out a meet in your neck of the woods and show up one day. John Smith The 70's; compy goggles, bell bottoms, Woodstock....and yes Fleetwood Mac you loser Geek! Since the door has been opened on the subject....a Title IX tie in possible: www.swimmingcoach.org/.../JL12052002.asp Also from NSGA Research: High School Sports Participation Increases Again The number of student participants in high school athletics for the 2006-07 school year rose by 183,006 students to 7,342,910, according to the 2006-07 High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS). Although participation has increased for 18 consecutive years, this year’s increase of 183,006 participants from last year is the largest one-year jump since a rise of 225,168 between the 1994-95 and 1995-96 school years. In addition, girls participation exceeded three million for the first time, with 3,021,807 females participating in 2006-07. Boys participation of 4,321,103 is the highest participation in the past 29 years. This year’s boys participation figure is second only to the record 4,367,442 in 1977-78. Basketball remained the most popular sport for girls with 456,967 participants, followed by outdoor track and field (444,181), volleyball (405,832), fast pitch softball (373,448), soccer (337,632), cross country (183,376), tennis (176,696), swimming and diving (143,639), competitive spirit squads (95,177) and golf (66,283). Soccer gained the most female participants in 2006-07 with 16,077, followed by volleyball with 15,798 and cross country with 7,422. In boys sports, 11-player football once again topped the list with 1,104,548 participants, followed by basketball (556,269), outdoor track and field (544,180), baseball (477,430), soccer (377,999), wrestling (257,246), cross country (216,085), golf (159,747), tennis (156,944) and swimming and diving (106,738). Eleven-player football gained the most participants among boys sports in 2006-07 with 32,773, followed by soccer with 19,064, outdoor track and field with 10,195 and basketball with 9,934. Texas retained its title as having the most sports participants with 763,967, followed by California (735,497), New York (350,349), Illinois (334,358), Michigan (321,400), Ohio (315,473), Pennsylvania (276,911), New Jersey (247,332), Florida (230,312) and Minnesota (220,241). Through the survey, it was also determined that 54.2% of students enrolled in high schools participate in athletics. The participation survey has been compiled since 1971 by the NFHS through numbers it receives from its member associations. The complete 2006-07 Participation Survey is available on the NFHS Web site www.nfhs.org. Although statistics show otherwise...talk to any College or USS swim club and what you will hear is what John is saying. It may be that at the age group/high school level participation is up...but go hang out with a top tier Div I college recruiter and hear how much talent is out there in...no wonder so many teams recruit overseas.

Geek, I'm not shelling out $500 bucks for another brain drain device in my house. PERIOD ! My son plays NASCAR 2 hours a day ! I'm ready to pull the plug. Fortress.... sorry but I had to Google "Savonarola"... an Italian Dominican priest and leader of Florence from 1494 until his execution in 1498. He was known for religious reform, anti-Renaissance preaching, book burning, and destruction of what he considered immoral art. He vehemently preached against what he saw as the moral corruption of the clergy, and his main opponent was Pope Alexander VI. He is sometimes seen as a precursor of Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation, though he remained a devout and pious Roman Catholic during his whole life. The Evil Smith will tell you that I am DEFINITELY not like him. As for girls dominating a sport...... I could care less. More power to them. However.... boys attendance in the same sport being negatively affected for whatever reason..... then I do care. Geek.... growing up in NE Ohio in the 1970s, there were ALWAYS equal or greater number of boys in age group swimming. Here in Denver, its about a 2/3rd ratio in many of the local meets of boys to girls. Also, don't for get to subtract out the percentage of general population growth over the decades in your numbers above. Things may be rosie in your neck of the woods, but its not that way nationwide. John Smith

I can't count the nmber of times I have seen talented 10 and under boys and 11-12 boys basically quit. It is not because of video games, that is too easy an answer. It is just not cool to talk to their friends (unless they are other swimmers) about their swimming events since none of their friends understand the sport in the first place. Like it or not, kids want to fit in. I dunno, swimming is no less cool now than it was back in the sacred 70s. It is no secret that, on average, young girls have more drive and focus and are better students than young boys. At my son's swim practice, girls outnumber the boys (he is 9) but there are plenty of fast boy swimmers too. The video phenomenon is real. We severely limit his access to games, TV and computer (weekends only, and for a limited time -- and he has to "earn" the game time by reading books or exercising for the same amount of time). And he does not have the latest and greatest, by any means (Nintendo DS, one step up from a Gameboy). But when he gets together with his friends, it is STILL almost all they talk about (some girls too, but mostly boys). I will absolutely not let him take it to a swim meet -- he would completely miss his events -- but he still gravitates over to other swimmers just to WATCH them play. I am amazed at the addictive power of these things.

Woodstock was in 1969 but given your love of the worst band ever, that being Fleetwood Mac, I don't fault you for your mistake here. It's very difficult to reconcile the facts that say swimming participation by boys is at an all time high coupled with your own stated fact that boys overall sports participation is at an all time high level (in the past 29 years) and then predict the demise of men's swimming. Most would call that assertion completely unsupported by fact. But, never let facts get in the way of a good internet argument! Also, what in the world do you have against women in athletics? Our club is probably not representative of most nationwide but we have a large group of very fast boys, along with the girls as well.

Also, what in the world do you have against women in athletics? Yeah, really. I don't see it. I see some hot sh*t 13 year old boys in PV that show no signs of quitting -- Cyrus Hashemi, Matthew Gibson, Jack Congor, Philip Hu, etc. And, really, girls have many different sports to choose from too. I still haven't recovered from the lengthy drama over swimming vs. travel soccer vs. lacrosse vs. softball. Sheesh. It ain't 1970 anymore.

I've got 2 kids swimming here in Honolulu. By far the girls outnumber the boys right now - but the sport seems REALLY healthy to me. Nobody cares too much about high school swimming, but USA Swimming is huge. The biggest draw back is that in 7th grade lots of kids want to switch to water polo because it is more like a game - and sports are supposed to be fun. To some extent, we swimmers do it to ourselves. A couple years ago, I listened to Rowdy Gaines tell my kids (and other kids) - "if you stink at all other sports, try swimming...it worked for me." Why would kids be drawn to a sport if it is only for kids who can't do anything else? My kid's private school (Punahou) has over 300 state championships. Swimming is the only winter sport that does not cut and is open to all comers. So, even though Punhaou wins the state high school meet more often than not, the sport is frowned upon because kids that get cut from the other winter sports teams swim.

Geek, I have news for you..... This forum is ALL ABOUT GRUMPY OLD MEN...... ie. it's MASTERS SWIMMING. Let me translate that to you.......... We are old ! As for the 1970s....... Dude...... you are trespassing on hollowed ground with nasty comments about Fleetwood Mac. Evil Smith and I will pick out a meet in your neck of the woods and show up one day. John Smith

Woodstock was in 1969 but given your love of the worst band ever, that being Fleetwood Mac, I don't fault you for your mistake here. It's very difficult to reconcile the facts that say swimming participation by boys is at an all time high coupled with your own stated fact that boys overall sports participation is at an all time high level (in the past 29 years) and then predict the demise of men's swimming. Most would call that assertion completely unsupported by fact. But, never let facts get in the way of a good internet argument! Also, what in the world do you have against women in athletics? Our club is probably not representative of most nationwide but we have a large group of very fast boys, along with the girls as well. So i guess we should live and die strictly based on "statistics"? Forget the observations of the people on the front lines of development of the next generation of elite swimmers in the US...college coaches? I can't explain why the numbers part way with what people I respect and trust are telling me...but they do. Maybe, just maybe more people are getting involved as "posers" at the high school level, and possibly young, fat kids are bing pushed to sign up for sports by parents finally recognizing the epidemic of obesity in this country..only to both quit when the demands and accountability of a Div I program come their way....I don't know but to ignore it is to risk losing a generation of world class athletes. And give me a friggin break on the Title IX BS, I have NEVER said anything remotely that would lead someone to think i was against women in sports...but policies like is and affirmative action..or anything our government does to "level the playing field" almost always have an unintended and reverse effect...because some of us feel that should be discussed and evaluated does not make us sexists or racists!