The Demise of Mens Swimming in the US

Fort, tuition is outrageous for in state schools as well. You are better off buying into a 529 than thinking your kid can get a scholarship and spending dollars on a sport or musical instrument. My DD will probably last longer as a recreational swimmer because she enjoys the exercise, and friends. Interestingly, whatever college she goes to will probably have a women's swim team if she wanted to walk onto it. Not true of boys. It is a GOOD thing that women have opportunities they did not have when I was in HS, very good. It is NOT a good thing that if you are not a football or basketball player, you will not get very much money, male or female. Outside of the extremely talented athletes, most minor sport athletes will not get full scholarship. With the price of tuition, books, and board, any bit sure helps. Great NYT series on college athletic scholarships makes a lot of these points. Here's the first article: www.nytimes.com/.../10scholarships.html

Don't forget to vote... forums.usms.org/showthread.php -

Club swimming.....2000.00 a year for fees, competition, and equipment. I wish! Thank your lucky stars. Mine was more like $5500 with club fees, zones fees, travel meets fees, equipment, summer swim club fees, etc. Why is ILL state school tuition 20K a year?! Seems odd. UVA and William & Mary are great state schools here and the tuition is much less. I have the same problem as Geek. Swim clubs busting at the seams. Huge fights over pool time. Too many kids per lane. But other sports are just as popular, I guess, especially soccer and lacrosse.

I am going off topic here, but I have to correct a misstatement here. (Sorry Geek) 529's are not their money. The owner controls the account. If the child is only the beneficiary they can only use it as the owner sees fit. If the child doesn't use/need it for college, the owner can change the beneficiary to whomever they choose, even themselves if they want to go back to school. That is what is so much better about 529s vs. UTMA/UGMA accounts. In a custodial account the child DOES get the money at the age of majority and can use it for whatever they want regardless of the parent's intention. In the 529 account, it grows tax free if used for college. If the 529 is used for something other than tuition, room, board, books or fees then taxes are due on the difference between the amount put in the account and the value, i.e. growth of it, plus a 10% penalty on the growth. The IRS wants these used for post secondary education so the incentives/penalties are there to do that. Sorry for the basics of 529 lesson, if anyone needs more information, I guess start a thread. I don't sell them, but do work with advisors who do. My company has the largest 529 platform in the industry so I have to be up to speed on these. Thanks for clarification. I think the 529's are great. College tuition increases about 10% a year. To have frozen my kids at 2000 prices have been huge.

I wish! Thank your lucky stars. Mine was more like $5500 with club fees, zones fees, travel meets fees, equipment, summer swim club fees, etc. Why is ILL state school tuition 20K a year?! Seems odd. UVA and William & Mary are great state schools here and the tuition is much less. I have the same problem as Geek. Swim clubs busting at the seams. Huge fights over pool time. Too many kids per lane. But other sports are just as popular, I guess, especially soccer and lacrosse. U of I - urbana champaign: Tuition and fees $11,244 - 15,036* * Books and supplies $1,200 $1,200 Room and board (20 meals/week) $8,196 TOTAL ESTIMATED COSTS $20,640 - 24,432 They are one of the higher ones, but not by much. These fees do not include individual department fees, such as engineering tacks on 3000 per year to major, other colleges as well. Our state is in big financial woes and THAT is a whole nother topic, but that is probably why tuition is higher, state aid reduced, cost passed on to the student. Also, cost of swim teams downstate have cheaper fees than Chicago area, but Chicago area does not have to travel as much to get to meets, so their cost would be slightly less. I find swimming in the rural areas a hard sell. Parents do not want to work that hard for their child's sport. The traveling for pool time, traveling for meets, the odd hours, chase the parents away from even putting their kids in.

Greetings I have read this thread with great interest as I am the parent of a 13 yo male age grouper. He just made his first sectional this year and is focused on the Olympics. It is great he is excited and has dreams! As I read the thread, you are all writing about my current life. Lots of money and travel for a kids sport. I have no illusions about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow but many parents do. One of my favorite conversation starters at lunch with parents is "Wouldn't it be great if your Jimmy swam in college?" Then the true colors show. I smile and nod alot. I went to college working in a D1 sports program and it was WORK. Wouldn't do it again. Study more for sure. Knowing the numbers in college for boys and athletes in general, I will continue this road though because it is healthy and fun for the boy. I ignore the money and time I spend and encourage him to dream big. Reality will come closing in soon enough, but for now gas up the car and write the checks. We spend lots of time together on the road. The other thing I love is that I can use swimming to produce grades every time. No grades no swimming. Regards Spudfin

The apparent erosion of scholarships won't kill this sport. Most swimmers on Division I teams don’t have athletic scholarships (Division I rules allow fewer than 10 for swimmers). Division III, the most pure of the divisions, allows no athletic scholarships in any sport. Yet, there are opportunities for kids to swim while also getting a decent and appropriate education. Even Division III can be a lot of fun for accomplished swimmers (the Div. III men’s nationals are ending today: Now, I agree, it would be nice if athletic departments, especially at big schools, were to get over their football fixations, and it would have been be nice if the choices imposed by Title IX hadn’t exposed the athletic departments’ perennial preferences for sports like football that in most schools lose buckets of money. But, with apologies for the long post, I think determined kids - boys and girls - who hit the books and the pool with equal vigor and who look in the right places will be able to find (and pay for) an appropriate and decent education that also allows them to enjoy the fun of swimming on a college team. There are a lot of great ideas here. I have an enormous amount of respect for coaches at the Division I level, but I don't think the pressure that they face on the men's side are reflective of men's swimming as a whole. I think the country is big enough for the football junkies to have their fix, and for a few dedicated, gifted swimmers making their mark, and for a lot of kids to get into the pool and fun. BTW, my 12 year old son has just rejoined his swim team after a year of basketball. He'll never be an Olympic Trials swimmer, but he'll hopefully maintain the lifetime appreciation for the sport that I have. BTW, even at $24,000/ year, I'd say a public university can be a great value (depending on the motivation of the student, of course).

There are some downside with 529s also. That's their money, college or not. 529s cover much more than just tuition. I am going off topic here, but I have to correct a misstatement here. (Sorry Geek) 529's are not their money. The owner controls the account. If the child is only the beneficiary they can only use it as the owner sees fit. If the child doesn't use/need it for college, the owner can change the beneficiary to whomever they choose, even themselves if they want to go back to school. That is what is so much better about 529s vs. UTMA/UGMA accounts. In a custodial account the child DOES get the money at the age of majority and can use it for whatever they want regardless of the parent's intention. In the 529 account, it grows tax free if used for college. If the 529 is used for something other than tuition, room, board, books or fees then taxes are due on the difference between the amount put in the account and the value, i.e. growth of it, plus a 10% penalty on the growth. The IRS wants these used for post secondary education so the incentives/penalties are there to do that. Sorry for the basics of 529 lesson, if anyone needs more information, I guess start a thread. I don't sell them, but do work with advisors who do. My company has the largest 529 platform in the industry so I have to be up to speed on these.

In fact, in our modern age, your education won't turn on an athletic scholarship. Consider one such Division I school that is competitive in many sports (though its swimming teams perform in line with its appallingly bad football teams). This school admits freshman classes of about 1,600 and this spring is likely to reject more than half of the 1,600 applicants who had combined SAT scores (math plus critical reasoning) of more than 1,500 – just as it’s likely to reject about two-thirds of those who will graduate as their high schools’ valedictorians. Instead, its admissions office will send “fat envelops” to kids who are well rounded: these kids have great scores and grades but also are accomplished in something else like swimming. Once admitted, the school's decision on financial aid is based solely on financial need. Hmmm.... Sounds somewhat like my alma mater (although the SATS have changed and are no longer "math and critical reasoning": they're math, verbal and an essay and I believe the combined score has changed as well as a result of adding essays). I'm not sure I agree about the desirability of being "well rounded" as the most desirable criteria for college admission. From the people in admissions that I know, they are now looking for the angular, not well rounded student. So they would rather see someone be kick ass at something (sports, piano, debate, dance, whatever) and amazing at academics than someone who joined every club, participated in every activity, padded their resume, etc. But you certainly need more than good grades nowadays. I know some really good swimmers at DIII schools having great swimming careers and doing well academically. Perfectly fine way to go.

Full article here: news.yahoo.com/.../flutie_effect;_ylt=AqaqgnxH8ucR4FTKOAlnTUSs0NUE Schools score big when sports teams win By DENA POTTER, Associated Press Writer March 23, 2008 RICHMOND, Va. - Turns out there's some basis for the long-held belief among college admissions officials that the better their schools' teams do in high-profile sporting events, the more applications they'll see. Until recently, evidence about the "Flutie Effect" — coined when applications to Boston College jumped about 30 percent in the two years after quarterback Doug Flutie's Hail Mary pass beat Miami in 1984 — had been mostly anecdotal. So two researchers set out to quantify it, concluding after a broad study that winning the NCAA football or men's basketball title means a bump of about 8 percent, with smaller increases the reward more modest success..... Another excerpt: ....Among their conclusions in a paper that is to be published this year in Southern Economic Journal: • Schools that make it to the Sweet 16 in the men's basketball tournament see an average 3 percent boost in applications the following year. The champion is likely to see a 7 to 8 percent increase, but just making the 65-team field will net schools an average 1 percent bump. • Similarly, applications go up 7 to 8 percent at schools that win the national football championship, and schools that finish in the top 20 have a 2.5 percent gain. There has been wide debate over the legitimacy of the Flutie Effect, especially when it comes to whether schools should pour money into athletics programs with the hope of reaping the benefits of a winning team. Pope said that's certainly not what he is suggesting.....