Fast swimming in practice/unrested

I don't know about now (as a Master's swimmer) but I must have been a bit of a head case as a youngster. I had quite a lengthy plateau during my last year of high school and first couple of years in college. Fortunately my times were fast enough as they were to qualify me for the big meets but I did swim times equal to my best unrested and in the middle of the season pretty often back then. It was really frustrating. I once swam a 200 breaststroke in practice (race simulated situation swimming against a 200 IM'er) and I equaled my best time (an Olympic Trial qualifying time). I later proceeded to go to Olympic Trials (tapered this time) and swm slower. How sad is that?! When I finally did conquer that time I went 3 full seconds faster but it took me a couple of years. So (sorry for the yappy response) I think tapering was never a magic bullet for me.

Hi Paul, yes, I tend to swim fast in practice I hope to drop when I taper but I can't always count on it. Part of it is because of the suit I train in and do fast swims in. I train in a lycra brief, sometimes I wear a FS Jammers and other times my hineck, but I tend to indicate when I switch suits over the years, what I've learned to count on is the faster I swim in practice the faster I'll swim in meets back in 1996 I went 21.7 in the 50 in a meet then rested a month then went 21.0 last year I was 22.30 at zones, but I'm a lot stronger now that I was a year ago from weight training. Also going into nationals, I plan to focus on strength and speed, then finally rest so far this season in a meet I've only been 49.7 in the 100 free I hope to have a decent drop from there I went 25.3 in the 50 bk, at 2007 zones I was 25.7 I've noticed sometimes in longer hard sets instead of falling apart I'll get in a groove, especially on descending swims with decent rest I think that's what happened when I when I went 2:00.9 in a 200 bk in practice last week plus on that set I was 3rd or 4th in my lane, 5 seconds behind Doug Ellis, he's 6 foot / 200 lbs so I'm sure I had a bit of a draft today I did a hard 200 bk and was only 2:04 but I was in a lane by myself my buddy tyler is not great at stepping up on fast swims in practice but he also wears a nylon training suit which is thicker and heavier today he did a 50 fl in 25.2 but he'll be 23 mid in a meet in college John Smith was an amazing workout swimmer and a very consistent mid season meet swimmer. I've noticed every now and then sometimes in practice I'll punch a very swim which I chalk up to timer error or breakthrough Ande Ande....having read your blog and a few others and seeing some of the times you've posted...as well as some of the mnd boggling in season/unrested swims going on this college and USS season I thought I'd bring up the topic of swimming fast in workout and in unrested meets. Having always been a VERY slow workout swimmer as well as a poor untapered swimmer I'm always amazed at how fast others can go in those situations. But I have noticed that those same swimmers don't necessarilly have big drops for meets they rest and shave for. So after seeing Michael Klueh from Texas go 4:11 unrested in the 500, my evil twin go 21.8/47.7 unrested (and at altitude), hearing you went 22.0 50 free and 2:00 in the 200 back at workout the question for everyone is what do you see in your own situations? Note; one thing that a few of us have noticed is that big old clydesadle types like me usually are the ones that drop the most from resting....little jackrabbits like JS swim fast all the time and don't seem to take as big of drops rested.

Paul I have always wondered about this subject from the time I was a swimmer, a university coach, and now a masters swimmer. I was of the type that I could go pretty fast in workout, during the season, and then drop some time at the big taper meet. I was lucky and never really ever had a bad taper... My entire college career I drop time every year. Now that I'm a masters swimmer I still train pretty fast during workout, but I don't get the big drops. This could be that I only swim 2 and 3 times a week when I'm lucky. I coached swimmers who trained like you and some who swam fast all the time. I think the one thing I found with most of the swimmers was that each swimmer pretty much did what they believed they could do. I think each of us choose what best suits our choice of events, our body type, our mental attitude, and then adapt to the coaches (mostly general) plan for the season. Some of us prefer to swim fast all season, which in the end leaves less room for hugh drops. And some of us decide that we are the ones that are going to have the big drops and swim not so fast during the season. Your style of swimming drive coaches a little more nuts during the season, but mine can give a coach heart ache at the last meet hoping for bigger drops. In my heart as a swimmer and as coach I think an athlete would benefit from using both types of training. Getting an athlete to believe during different cycles of their training that need to train and compete as fast you can. Then during another cycle train with the expectations of having bigger drops. I know from swimming with you from time to time that I know I would have benefited from slowing down and working at a more technical pace. I know I train too hard sometimes.

Muscle mass/body type is one thing I think plays the biggest part for me and a few other folks I've spoke to about this. I carry a load of about 240lbs and I get terribly broken down in my training...to the point that I need 3 weeks of rest to nail a taper (Fort's getting twitchy just thinking about that much rest!). John on the other hand is a measly 185 and always seems to be able to swim fast...except when he psychs himself out! Hard to say...but for me I have to absolutely 100% believe that I've "banked" the training and the time drops will come, which for the most part has been the case the last few years in spite of some horrible unrested meets (2:08 200m free at mission before dropping to 2:00 at worlds). PS; Mr. Nelson...those times would be from a dive PSS: Dennis....we were just in SLC last week, where are you coaching/training these days?

I was always a pretty good practice swimmer as a kid and through college. In other words, in college I could hang in workouts, then got slaughtered at meets :) These days I don't swim very fast at mid-season meets or during practice. No faster than my lanemates, anyway. It's pretty typical for me to drop 2-3 seconds per hundred from my in season times to my taper meet times. I'm about 6'2", 180-185 lbs, by the way.

I used to work the taper thing, but anymore I'm in it for the fitness and fun of it. My workouts are moderate; I try to focus on technique but not speed, and so the results at meets are no surprise.

Paul I have always wondered about this subject from the time I was a swimmer, a university coach, and now a masters swimmer. I was of the type that I could go pretty fast in workout, during the season, and then drop some time at the big taper meet. I was lucky and never really ever had a bad taper... My entire college career I drop time every year. Now that I'm a masters swimmer I still train pretty fast during workout, but I don't get the big drops. This could be that I only swim 2 and 3 times a week when I'm lucky. I coached swimmers who trained like you and some who swam fast all the time. I think the one thing I found with most of the swimmers was that each swimmer pretty much did what they believed they could do. I think each of us choose what best suits our choice of events, our body type, our mental attitude, and then adapt to the coaches (mostly general) plan for the season. Some of us prefer to swim fast all season, which in the end leaves less room for hugh drops. And some of us decide that we are the ones that are going to have the big drops and swim not so fast during the season. Your style of swimming drive coaches a little more nuts during the season, but mine can give a coach heart ache at the last meet hoping for bigger drops. In my heart as a swimmer and as coach I think an athlete would benefit from using both types of training. Getting an athlete to believe during different cycles of their training that need to train and compete as fast you can. Then during another cycle train with the expectations of having bigger drops. I know from swimming with you from time to time that I know I would have benefited from slowing down and working at a more technical pace. I know I train too hard sometimes. I'm sure yardage and body type are important. When I was young doing mega-yardage, I was a crappy workout swimmer and tapered big time with huge drops. Now, I do less yardage, more speedwork, and expect to drop less. But since I'm still new at this, I don't really have a definite masters pattern. Right now, since I don't swim many meets, I'd rather not be utterly broken down for them, so I tend to opt to go faster. I think Dennis' suggestion about doing both types of training is interesting though. Oh yeah, Paul, sit around for 3 weeks getting fat, abstaining from wine, and suffering from endorphin withdrawl sounds real fun. I'll call it the Clydesdale Plan for people about twice my size. :joker:

I usually swim faster when I am fully tapered. Seems to be on average about 2 seconds faster in hundreds and 4 seconds faster in 200. Recently I just swam a meet, 100 fly at 53.7 and 200 fly at 1:59.14. That was done not rested and from way I felt body broken down and tired. If all goes well next month when Im shaved and tapered I can drop the 2 and 4 second range per hundreds.

Another interesting thing about this is how many top swimmers put on race suits for almost all their meets these days...and like Ande often in workout for quality days as well. I swim so few meets as well that I almost always wear at least legskins and often a full suit. As for workouts...on rare occasions a jammer but never a full suit for me, there's still something to shaving and putting on a full suit after a taper that is a lot like Xmas morning if you know what I mean! And Fort...NEVER abstain from wine...during a taper is actually the time to break out the good stuff!

Leslie, Paul is right about the wine. However, I happen to know that he drinks Yellowtail and thinks it is pretty high-end wine. When we get to Austin, Grace & I will show you what REAL winos drink.... Midseason only on the Yellowtail my friend, a nice Paradigm or Clos du Val Cabernet during taper! :drink: