We had a videotaping session in practice on Wed and I got some video of my butterfly. I've been trying to work on my butterfly lately but I could really use some pointers and suggestions for specific things to work on and how to work on them.
Clearly the turnover is too slow. Lack of range of motion in my shoulders doesn't allow me to keep my hands at the surface while my chest is down the way that people like Phelps do. In the underwater side view it looks like my hips sink way too much and then don't quite make it back up to the surface, but I don't know what to do about that other than a quicker recovery.
youtube.com/watch
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Former Member
Quick silver is right your kick takes up a lot of room. When I saw the kick I thought you should almost switch to an arms only fly. I would lighten up on the kick and your arms will not have to do that play around stuff on the entry.
Wow, thanks everyone for all the advice and tips!
I've watched my Phelps butterfly DVD (had forgotten how good it is, lots and lots of good footage of Phelps' stroke). I also watched George's video on google, Tom's EVF videos on youtube and Ande's youtube videos. I can't wait to get in the pool tomorrow!
Jonathan and FunkyFish, I'll try to deemphasize the kick, I *think* that was happening somewhat automatically with the wider entry and immediate catch I was working on yesterday. We'll see how it goes.
Tomorrow I'll concentrate on the wide entry, immediate catch and not dropping my elbows, while trying to reduce the amplitude of the up and down, especially the kick. That's probably already more than I can handle all at once already!
Thanks again everyone!
Thank you Ande, QuickSilver and George!
I devoted a good chunk of my workout yesterday to working on a wider entry and immediate catch and I think it is going to help a lot. It felt like it took a lot less effort, more energy going forward and less up and down. It also felt faster but that may have just been because the turnover was faster, I didn't time or count strokes per length. I also tried to get my elbows higher and to adjust the timing of the kick a bit.
I wonder if my over-large kick was a symptom of trying to "force" my chest (and extended arms) down and hips up. With the wider entry it seems like my chest "just falls" into the water and the hips pop up without me having to put much effort into it. I was concentrating on the front end so I'm not positive but it felt like the kick was lower amplitude - I was using fins so that I could do more lengths without having to contend with exhaustion. (The feel was very different compared to my old style with fins, not just compared to swimming without fins!) Tomorrow I'll see how it goes without fins. It will be interesting to see how different it looks on video because it feels very different.
There's a woman on my team of comparable speed, but with a much more economical looking stroke, I see that she has a wide entry:
youtube.com/watch
I really hope this works out because for the amount of time I've spent working on my fly it should be a lot better than it is! It would be great to have some visible improvement. Thanks again for the advice so far and for anything more anyone has to offer!
Hi Lindsay,
2 things are apparent in her stroke:
Wider entry...low amplitude kick.
Notice how her kick has a small zone of up and down...with hips high at the surface.
George is correct in saying to tone down the kick.
As you already discovered...kicking with a reduced vertical zone results in less drag.
I bet you'll see some good improvements.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One side note (the secret to easy butterfly)...
One coaching tip which I always pass along to aspiring flyers...Chin down.
When the arms are just pulling out of the water...your head should raise ever so slightly to take a breath...but the chin is skimming along the surface (no higher). Get the face back into the water quickly... so the arms can swing comfortably past the shoulder with no head in the way.
This ensures high hips. If the head is high...and the neck is breaking the surface, it tips the scales...and the hips will drop.
Staying as horizontal as possible eliminates drag and conquers gravity. When you swim with zero gravity you can do butterfly all day long.
We had a videotaping session in practice on Wed and I got some video of my butterfly. I've been trying to work on my butterfly lately but I could really use some pointers and suggestions for specific things to work on and how to work on them.
Clearly the turnover is too slow. Lack of range of motion in my shoulders doesn't allow me to keep my hands at the surface while my chest is down the way that people like Phelps do. In the underwater side view it looks like my hips sink way too much and then don't quite make it back up to the surface, but I don't know what to do about that other than a quicker recovery.
youtube.com/watch
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Hey Lindsay,
This is quite an interesting concept, using the video for stroke analysis through the forum. We're multiplying many different technologies to bring people of similar interests together, in a way that wasn't possible before. Ahhh.... the future...
So, as far as the video, many have made comments that are useful, so I won't repeat those points. However, after watching your stroke for probably 30 minutes or more I did notice some things that might also be of benefit.
First, I'd like to say this. Stroke analysis is a personal thing, depending on your range of motion, strengths and weaknesses. The question is this, What's the best stroke for you? I can see how you'd like to mimic the best and hope to have similar results, but right now we need look at some other areas that would probably give you quicker results, that is, until you train out the range of motion issues. (This can be accomplished in the gym using specific exercises and stretches, but could take many months/years)
The reason I'm suggesting this first, is because if your body works together in the water you'll swim more efficiently. There are certainly some dryland exercises that could help, hip/neck/shoulder/ankle flexibility, timing drills, over-all body co-ordination, etc. If your weaknesses are mostly range of motion, and timing, I'd suggest targeting those area's.
At the end of the day, the water offers a constant (and limited) amount of resistance, so to create specific adaptation you need to increase the focus on the appropriate area's of weakness.
In the short term, I'm looking at the way you're finishing your stroke. Yes, you pause at the top as others have noticed, and your head stalls, but that could be stretched out. For now though, it seems that you could really benefit by finishing the stroke, and really focusing on the body dolphin at the end... Your upper body, and leg action seem to moving as seperate parts, and need to be flowing in a uniform motion. You're fighting the water with your legs, instead of mimicing a natural wave pattern.
So how do we train this for appropriate adaptation? At First, I suggest trying to not kick (in the traditional sense) for awhile, just let your legs flow, while you're pushing further at the end of the stroke... while you're doing this, get your head deeper... GO SLOW AT FIRST... Really try and think of your body as ONE wave. This is the first area I'd work on. Don't look for instant results, we have to reprogram your nervous system, so drop the muscle memory, and focus on the natural tendencies of the water.
I'd love to see you improve, and I'd write more about ways to do that. The joy from experiencing a breakthough in swimming "feels" as good as winning the race, sometimes better. However, I'm going to be late for work... so, perhaps next time...
Dropping your elbows at the start of your stroke is immediately noticeable and kills your speed. If you go to utube or Google and type in "EVF + swimming" you'll get some more info on how to correct that problem. All the suggestions are good ones. Improving your ankle flexibility will help a lot too. Good luck.
www.youtube.com/watch.
Jimmy breaks it down nicely.
That was cool. Actually, all three of his swim lessons were cool (and instructive). I hope he gets a job as a coach when he's back in the States. Seems like a natural.
Skip Montanaro
My workout today was not as good as on Saturday.
I thought I would try to transfer the feel I had Saturday with fins on to swimming without fins, and it didn't work at all. Eventually I gave up and put the fins back on, and even then it took me a long time to get back to something that felt faintly like Saturday. I did, I believe, set a personal record for most lengths of fly in one workout, even if they were all 25s with lots of rest.
I have two new theories to test. The first is that the wide entry is not so much the silver bullet as it seemed, I think that breathing really early and getting back down into the water early in the recovery is the focal point that leads to the feel I was getting Saturday, I think the wide entry just makes it easier to do that. The wide entry, shoulder extension and quick catch etc. that I was focusing on Saturday do seem to bring the kick that occurs as the hands enter into a better timing than I had before.
Tomorrow I'll go back to a primary focus on breath timing/body rhythm and a secondary focus on the wide entry with extension and quick catch. Hopefully this won't all prove to be a dead end style that I can only do wearing fins.
I also finally found my "Go Swim with Misty Hyman" DVD, it talks about some of this stuff. Perhaps I should get in the habit of watching all my DVDs once a month.
