Butterfly Help/Video Analysis

... The faster I go the easier it is to stay high in the water.... some days i feel this is an undeniable truth... some days i'm not so sure. hi Lindsay... not seen you post here in a while until just recently... welcome back. i recall that i joined this board about the time i started really getting into my fly practice. i've watched all of your threads and posts, especially on fly, with great interest. thanks for the updates and recent contributions. i really like your teeter-totter analogy... very coolbeans. ;-) when i watch your fly vid here on this thread the first things that pop into my head are: 1. he seems really tight across the shoulders on the recovery 2. he seems to go up more than forward on the breath these are common problems... i'm more-or-less still dealing with both myself. about all i can offer for a solution is study, practice, and a good coach. based on my own experience i'm at a point where i can experiment with body position and movement in my fly practice. i've been doing some fly at every practice for well over 5 years now. right now i'm experimenting a lot with shoulder positioning and rotation. i'm also experimenting with body position and movement a lot. more specifically i'm trying to maintain more suppleness in my stroke... relaxing into it.... it's that Yoga thing all over again... relaxing the muscles you don't need, and activating the muscles you do need to accomplish the task. That Frolander Flexible Legkicks vid that George put up comes immediately to mind. (if you can download vids like this and watch them in something like QuickTime you can step them through one frame at a time... VERY Coolbeans!) i think the most basic problem regular folks have in starting fly is that missed timing is so unforgiving, and this is combined with with some critical, and sometimes very subtle movements that are only well executed in a motion that flows, rather than jerks. in essence: finesse is WAY more important than speed and power. i need to note here that i do what i now call 'glide fly'. the term 'slow fly' drew a lot of negative responses (and imagery too i believe). 'relaxed fly' was a bit better, but that gets some negative press and imagery too. both slow and relaxed may apply at times, but it is easier for me to visualize myself gliding through the motions. when i do this best, i definitely get the best results. i recently feel i've made some breakthroughs with the 'pressing the chest' concept. i've noticed that the opening of the shoulders at the end of the recovery, combined with the timing and amplitude of the kick here, have a major impact on the efficiency of the stroke at this point. i think i've been interpreting the 'pressing of the chest' all wrong all this time. it is not so much a press of the chest as it is an opening of the shoulders on entry (which forces the chest cavity down). to illustrate this... try standing up in a streamlined position (arms up). if you want, try standing first with your back against a blank wall (with no baseboard if possible), and get as much of your body (heals to spine to hands) pressed against the wall as you can (this is like something i learned in yoga class). How well you can accomplish this will tell you how flexible, or supple, you are here. with this flatness in mind, step away from the wall and rotate the shoulders back... like pinching the shoulder blades together. if you rotate your arms as well, so the thumbs point forward (i.e. thumbs first entry) you should be able to get even more shoulder rotation (pinching). you should notice two things when you do this 1. the chest is 'pressed' forward (out, or what would be 'down' while doing fly) 2. the pelvis rotates back (your butt pooches out) the kick will naturally flow into, or along with, this movement... Eureka! i believe it is hard to detect this movement in the 'super swimmer' vids because they are so finely tuned the movement is remarkably subtle, plus the bubbles and/or camera angle can obscure the view. but if you look closely enough (in a frame by frame viewing)... you can detect it. for me this is the truest glide point. if i can execute power and form correctly beforehand, i can easily maintain forward momentum here, and not have my speed completely die at this point (especially by breathing to late)... keeping the stroke as flat as possible... i can get a really good glide here. try as i may, i need the time here to prepare my mind and (poor old tired arthritic) shoulders for the next cycle... so i glide a bit. on better days i have less of a glide and less amplitude in the stroke as well (and consequently a feeling of better speed for less effort). yet i still watch in total awe the vids of folks starting the catch pretty much immediately upon entry. also, i know my arms usually go too deep on the entry, but keeping in the spirit of the times i choose to blame it on something else (namely my arthritic shoulders). this glide motion allows my body to flow through the (lowest amplitude possible) sine wave motion, with the (preferably RELAXED) arms drifting back to the surface during the glide, always maintaining forward motion, to start the next pull. anyway... keeping things flat (streamlined) definitely helps my efficiency. and i too find that sometimes not trying to kick helps a lot in finding the correct timing and/or body position. breathing early is essential! well... i reckon that is enough for now. HTH.

... The faster I go the easier it is to stay high in the water.... some days i feel this is an undeniable truth... some days i'm not so sure. hi Lindsay... not seen you post here in a while until just recently... welcome back. i recall that i joined this board about the time i started really getting into my fly practice. i've watched all of your threads and posts, especially on fly, with great interest. thanks for the updates and recent contributions. i really like your teeter-totter analogy... very coolbeans. ;-) when i watch your fly vid here on this thread the first things that pop into my head are: 1. he seems really tight across the shoulders on the recovery 2. he seems to go up more than forward on the breath these are common problems... i'm more-or-less still dealing with both myself. about all i can offer for a solution is study, practice, and a good coach. based on my own experience i'm at a point where i can experiment with body position and movement in my fly practice. i've been doing some fly at every practice for well over 5 years now. right now i'm experimenting a lot with shoulder positioning and rotation. i'm also experimenting with body position and movement a lot. more specifically i'm trying to maintain more suppleness in my stroke... relaxing into it.... it's that Yoga thing all over again... relaxing the muscles you don't need, and activating the muscles you do need to accomplish the task. That Frolander Flexible Legkicks vid that George put up comes immediately to mind. (if you can download vids like this and watch them in something like QuickTime you can step them through one frame at a time... VERY Coolbeans!) i think the most basic problem regular folks have in starting fly is that missed timing is so unforgiving, and this is combined with with some critical, and sometimes very subtle movements that are only well executed in a motion that flows, rather than jerks. in essence: finesse is WAY more important than speed and power. i need to note here that i do what i now call 'glide fly'. the term 'slow fly' drew a lot of negative responses (and imagery too i believe). 'relaxed fly' was a bit better, but that gets some negative press and imagery too. both slow and relaxed may apply at times, but it is easier for me to visualize myself gliding through the motions. when i do this best, i definitely get the best results. i recently feel i've made some breakthroughs with the 'pressing the chest' concept. i've noticed that the opening of the shoulders at the end of the recovery, combined with the timing and amplitude of the kick here, have a major impact on the efficiency of the stroke at this point. i think i've been interpreting the 'pressing of the chest' all wrong all this time. it is not so much a press of the chest as it is an opening of the shoulders on entry (which forces the chest cavity down). to illustrate this... try standing up in a streamlined position (arms up). if you want, try standing first with your back against a blank wall (with no baseboard if possible), and get as much of your body (heals to spine to hands) pressed against the wall as you can (this is like something i learned in yoga class). How well you can accomplish this will tell you how flexible, or supple, you are here. with this flatness in mind, step away from the wall and rotate the shoulders back... like pinching the shoulder blades together. if you rotate your arms as well, so the thumbs point forward (i.e. thumbs first entry) you should be able to get even more shoulder rotation (pinching). you should notice two things when you do this 1. the chest is 'pressed' forward (out, or what would be 'down' while doing fly) 2. the pelvis rotates back (your butt pooches out) the kick will naturally flow into, or along with, this movement... Eureka! i believe it is hard to detect this movement in the 'super swimmer' vids because they are so finely tuned the movement is remarkably subtle, plus the bubbles and/or camera angle can obscure the view. but if you look closely enough (in a frame by frame viewing)... you can detect it. for me this is the truest glide point. if i can execute power and form correctly beforehand, i can easily maintain forward momentum here, and not have my speed completely die at this point (especially by breathing to late)... keeping the stroke as flat as possible... i can get a really good glide here. try as i may, i need the time here to prepare my mind and (poor old tired arthritic) shoulders for the next cycle... so i glide a bit. on better days i have less of a glide and less amplitude in the stroke as well (and consequently a feeling of better speed for less effort). yet i still watch in total awe the vids of folks starting the catch pretty much immediately upon entry. also, i know my arms usually go too deep on the entry, but keeping in the spirit of the times i choose to blame it on something else (namely my arthritic shoulders). this glide motion allows my body to flow through the (lowest amplitude possible) sine wave motion, with the (preferably RELAXED) arms drifting back to the surface during the glide, always maintaining forward motion, to start the next pull. anyway... keeping things flat (streamlined) definitely helps my efficiency. and i too find that sometimes not trying to kick helps a lot in finding the correct timing and/or body position. breathing early is essential! well... i reckon that is enough for now. HTH.