Hi everyone! I wanted to pass along some of my experiences/observations of those new swimmers using T.I. I am working with a group of triathletes who had no coaching whatsoever and purchased this swim book to try to improve their swimming.
I know it can be difficult to try to learn from a book as interpretation is different for everyone. Here are two common problems I'm finding that I think should (if at all possible) be addressed by the author/TI swim instructors for further clarification.
1. Mail Slot Entry
All of the swimmers' hand/arm entry is actually an inverted "V". The hand/forearm enter the water as a downward spear right by their ear. There is no catch whatsoever because the stroke is so short. The hand goes directly downward from the ear to the pool bottom; the stroke is of no use this way because there is no catch whatsoever.
2. Low in the water
They are all too low in the water. Their heads and shoulders are completely underwater so they have to roll too much and too far to get a breath of air. This is causing "fishtailing" and a tremendous amount of body movement. I understand "chest pressing" in the water, but they have taken it too far.
I have always firmly believed in each person's stroke being "their own", but there are some components that are necessary to swim well. I'm helping them to make some of these corrections, especially regarding the mail slot entry; they are "spearing" downward which I don't believe was the point. Most all of the triathletes swim a 50 meter free in around 2 minutes. Last Sunday with some changes (they are really working on their swimming), 4 of them were swimming the 50 meter free in around 45 to 50 seconds which is a huge improvement. They said it feels better now, and they are traveling faster with less body movement and with ease.
I know the TI book has helped many to join the world of swimming, but this indicates that without coaching, a book can be misinterpreted. A picture is worth a thousand words. One last point: ALL of them were holding their breath which is the kiss of death. I never bought this book so I cannot attest to what was explained in verse or graphics.
Donna
Former Member
I found something from the past forums.usms.org/showthread.php
I think it's difficult for someone who has always swum well to truly explain it to someone who can't, and that's been the value of T.I. for me. The stroke gets broken down into it's smallest possible pieces and it isn't necessary to try to coordinate everything all at once.
I don't think it is difficult at all to explain stroke breakdown to people who have almost zero knowledge of swimming. It depends on the person who is instructing and not all instructors can pick the correct 10 words or less scenario. Once a newbie understands the stroke components and their purpose (10 words or less again), then a light bulb goes on as each component is being discussed. And one of the most important things is the individual training concept which many do not have access to.
The TI book has helped thousands, no doubt about it, but a book can never replace a good swim coach and that mail entry slot thing I see over and over, has, well, prohibited new swimmers from developing a good, powerful stroke. I do not see where that type of entry provides for any substantial catch/pull. But again, it is hard to interpret any swim book and put it into practice. I commend those who have been able to do this. I wouldn't be able to because I wouldn't ever be sure if I was performing accurately.
And I am very happy that more people are swimming today because of learn-to-swim books. Look at all the people just on this forum who have had success!!
I must say that for someone who starts swimming "from scratch", Total Immersion offers a lot.
Let's stick to the topic this time, which is Total Immersion and New Swimmers. I don't think Terry is responsible for every newbie that's read one of his books.
i haven't taken the TI weekend workshop, rather i take the small group clinics taught by john fitzpatrick in chicago. the clinics are six, one hour sessions. i took the foundations course last spring and am now taking the advance freestyle. john is the head coach of the Chicago Blue Dolphins masters group and is one of a handful of senior TI instructors in the country. he is very good and while he seems grounded in TI he is not rigid at all. i am a really loose guy so it fits me well!
www.chicagobluedolphins.com/instruction.html
mark
George: I feel like you're having a conversation with yourself here. :thhbbb: :rofl:
I would just like to assure you that I am not entering too early or spearing/piercing the water too violently. I am diligently vessel shaping too. ;) Somewhat ironically, I find MFs to be useful for that purpose.
I saw Dave Barra swim the 200 free at zones. Very smooth. But not so much like Phelps. Phelps has the "lope" and kicks more.
I saw Dave Barra swim the 200 free at zones. Very smooth. But not so much like Phelps. Phelps has the "lope" and kicks more.
I got to watch the end of Dave Barra's 200 free at zones ;) :drink:
Dave does have a great looking stroke, and if you've seen him in distance events, he's able to hold to that form the whole way through, while picking up speed at the end.
Fort I must get everything I can before I leave for Mexico.
I must compliment you on your vessel shaping.
I know you must, George, and I applaud all your videos. ;) I think Terry prefers his distance swimming though. And whilst I am vessel shaping, I am also doing a lot of race pace work because I generally prefer to go fast over short distances. I would drown in one of your marathon swims because I do not have Dave Barra's fluid freestyle strokes.
Did you notice that Kate Zeigler has a bit of a windmill in her stroke?
I paid $2.99 for this battery operated wall clock at IKEA. I set it on the deck so I can read it. It is 10" and I can read it, and it has a second hand.
Swim 1:30 every 100 and you will get fast fast. The second hand was clicking so you do not see it well.
Congratulations, Slowswim. Sounds like a good idea to have an e-coach.
I'm following the 24 practices in 'Four-Stroke Workouts' by Terry Laughlin, so I guess he's my e-coach.
I do not see how a hand entry so near the head or ear is anything close to ideal. If the hand enters and is pushed forward before the pull begins you're creating signficant "push" drag. That is motion that pushes water in the wrong direction. Hand going to the bottom after a near ear entry seems like it would create a very quick or early catch but overall seems like it would shorten the stroke unnecessarily.
I see windmill swimmers as more efficient than that....
