Hi everyone! I wanted to pass along some of my experiences/observations of those new swimmers using T.I. I am working with a group of triathletes who had no coaching whatsoever and purchased this swim book to try to improve their swimming.
I know it can be difficult to try to learn from a book as interpretation is different for everyone. Here are two common problems I'm finding that I think should (if at all possible) be addressed by the author/TI swim instructors for further clarification.
1. Mail Slot Entry
All of the swimmers' hand/arm entry is actually an inverted "V". The hand/forearm enter the water as a downward spear right by their ear. There is no catch whatsoever because the stroke is so short. The hand goes directly downward from the ear to the pool bottom; the stroke is of no use this way because there is no catch whatsoever.
2. Low in the water
They are all too low in the water. Their heads and shoulders are completely underwater so they have to roll too much and too far to get a breath of air. This is causing "fishtailing" and a tremendous amount of body movement. I understand "chest pressing" in the water, but they have taken it too far.
I have always firmly believed in each person's stroke being "their own", but there are some components that are necessary to swim well. I'm helping them to make some of these corrections, especially regarding the mail slot entry; they are "spearing" downward which I don't believe was the point. Most all of the triathletes swim a 50 meter free in around 2 minutes. Last Sunday with some changes (they are really working on their swimming), 4 of them were swimming the 50 meter free in around 45 to 50 seconds which is a huge improvement. They said it feels better now, and they are traveling faster with less body movement and with ease.
I know the TI book has helped many to join the world of swimming, but this indicates that without coaching, a book can be misinterpreted. A picture is worth a thousand words. One last point: ALL of them were holding their breath which is the kiss of death. I never bought this book so I cannot attest to what was explained in verse or graphics.
Donna
Former Member
... I have always firmly believed in each person's stroke being "their own", but there are some components that are necessary to swim well....
i'm right behind you all the way on this concept.
this is pretty interesting stuff. thanks for the post. just shows to go you that there is a limit as to how far you can go on your own... especially in the beginning.
crikey! a 2min 50m free? OUCH! that really stings. and these folks want to do distance swims? sounds like they really do need help. i think it is pretty coolbeans that you are able to help these folks out.
i don't know much about TI either, other than it is highly controversial here, and seems really popular elsewhere. while it seems like a good program from what i've seen and heard, it is just not my cup of tea.
as i understand it, long distance swims rely heavily on front quadrant swimming. Coach Hines has some really good articles on this at:
articles by category - strokes
one easy way to find this list is to google:
coach hines swim houston
the actual article, Swimming in Circles, is on the usms web
i used to offer advice to folks i saw struggling needlessly, but now i only offer when asked, partly because of this thread: Do you correct people?
there have been a number of threads on TI... here are a few, some being VERY popular ones:
What do you think of total immersion?
Criticism of TI Principles
TI advice: stroke length vs rate
Total Immersion Strategies - A Closer Look
:cool:
If they are holding their breath, shooting their hands straight down to the bottom after the entry, and pushing their chests so low in the water that they have to climb up to breath, then they haven't read the book thoroughly or are not interpreting it properly. None of these things are called for in any of the T.I. books.
I am a fan of this method, because I was a really, really bad swimmer for decades before finding it, and none of the "Adult Stroke Improvement" classes I took helped at all, in fact one made me swim much worse. I would take a whole minute and about 35-40 strokes to swim 25 meters, elderly ladies doing that*old-fashioned head-up *** stroke would zoom past me, and a 12-lap workout felt exhausting. I don't come from a swimming background, just had the basic Red Cross lessons as a kid and flunked the level that required a 50m swim in.... whatever time it was.
I think it's difficult for someone who has always swum well to truly explain it to someone who can't, and that's been the value of T.I. for me. The stroke gets broken down into it's smallest possible pieces and it isn't necessary to try to coordinate everything all at once.
very timely post as i am starting my advanced TI freestyle class in a couple of hours! the original post was very helpful and struck a chord with me as they are two things i struggle with. but first here is my story.
i am a long time lap swimmer, 52 yrs old. never swam competively and don't really swim with a structured master's program. i got into the TI thing last spring after reading on article in USMS on open water swimming. as i was preparing for an alctraz crossing i figured it wouldn't hurt to bone up on my technique!
i bought the books and dvds and took ti classes here in chicago with a ti instructor who is a very good instructor. i was totally ignorant on swimming technique and the ti thing has really opened my eyes to swimming drills and techniques, etc.
since march i have really worked my ass off in the pool and no doubt i am a better more knowledgable swimmer. from ti i have learned about such swimming basics as balance, body roll, alignment, and the front quadrant arm thingy, stuff which were all new to me!!! i guess it was my "in" to swimming technique, but probably any swim approach that i would apply myself to would make me better!
but i have struggled with a few ti things, as donna mentioned. in regards to the mail slot, i don't put my hand in by my head, but i instead reach way farther out in front and slide my hand and arm pretty much straight out at a 3:00 position as recommended by the coach. so my arm is going out not down and this definitely helps with my streamline postioning and balance and it feels good!
but man that head thing is driving me crazy. just like donna said my head, when looking straight down and leading with the top, is deep in the water and for the life of me i can't get a smooth roll for air as i have to roll too far back up for it. and then i lose my breathing arm out in front balance thing. and i never connected my fishtailing with this, but man maybe that is part of my problem. so i try to move my head up and lead with the forehead which makes life a little easier, but i feel guilty like i am cheating and doing things wrong. so i hope to work on this at my new class. but i am too deep!!!
i gotta say that i can do a decent job with the switch drills where you swim from side to side, but when i do whole stroke it doesn't feel smooth as in my drill, i'm not really going from side to side in such an extreme way. know what i mean?
anyway i am looking forward to the class and i hope to get some help with all of this and i really want to learn that two beat kick. it looks so cool. i don't consider myself a ti fanatic at all but it is nice to be grounded in something. i have to say prior to the spring i have never done a drill in my whole swimming life, hell i don't even play scales on my guitar - and now i am. so that can't be a bad thing....
mark
I thought in a prior post you didn't even know who TL was, Rec Swimmer. :rolleyes:
I admit, that was in a nitpick-ish reply to George Park, compared to whom I consider myself a newbie. I have a couple of TI books and DVD:s, so of course I know what it's all about.
Fifty meters of freestyle takes me about a minute. I'm working on relaxation, high elbow recovery, breathing on the awkward side, the two-beat kick and counting strokes (17 strokes/25 meters). True, the pace clock is discouraging, and maybe I should quit. Naah, just kidding, really love swimming. I hope there's room for diversity?
There is a remote possibility that I will be faster next week/year.:fish2:
Donna, you are right about some aspects of TI, and your critique is valid and constructive. Total Immersion is not the only way to learn how to swim. Isn't it fabulous that we can pick and choose whatever we like from different sources?
I've been searching YouTube for some clips of outstanding TI swimmers, but they are conspicuously few. This one is from Israel:
www.youtube.com/watch
I've changed my mind! Wow!
Rec - that is a good video. He is not piercing the hand in he is slipping it in and extending. Is he really folowing the TI doctrine??? I admire a lot of the TI instructors they have added to the TI story with some good innovation.
Donna, you are right about some aspects of TI, and your critique is valid and constructive. Total Immersion is not the only way to learn how to swim. Isn't it fabulous that we can pick and choose whatever we like from different sources?
I've been searching YouTube for some clips of outstanding TI swimmers, but they are conspicuously few. This one is from Israel:
www.youtube.com/watch
I've changed my mind! Wow!
The people I have been working with DID not swim like this and they had worked from the book, thus, their mail slot entry was overly pronounced and they had no front quadrant swimming at all. I presume that the fellow in the video was swimming slow purposely. I thought he was a little too underwater because he had to really roll/rotate to get air, but all-in-all, it looked pretty nice. And he over-glided because it was awhile before his hand made a catch. But a smooth and comfortable swim and I think this is what TI's mission statement probably may be. Maybe this fellow had a TI coach in addition to the book!
We have to realize that Terry was not a great swimmer. He has researched and found a way for himself to swim beter, credit due. It is not the end all and be all. It is a means to become better then you were.
As I have said before anything that helps you become a better swimmer that is good.
The head down thing is a learning curve and is nothing new. Gerry MacNamee a great swimmer who swam for USC had his head buried deep in the 50s. I even went through that phase in the late 40s.
You will find that not everyone swims the same way.
Tom Bucy started marathon swimming in 1965 and changed his stroke from what he had done previously to a buried head in the water swimmer because his coach Gus told him he had to get his body into the water and not to swim high in the water. A little article here about Tom Bucy
books.google.com/books
very timely post as i am starting my advanced TI freestyle class in a couple of hours! the original post was very helpful and struck a chord with me as they are two things i struggle with. but first here is my story.
but i have struggled with a few ti things, as donna mentioned. in regards to the mail slot, i don't put my hand in by my head, but i instead reach way farther out in front and slide my hand and arm pretty much straight out at a 3:00 position as recommended by the coach. so my arm is going out not down and this definitely helps with my streamline postioning and balance and it feels good!
but man that head thing is driving me crazy. just like donna said my head, when looking straight down and leading with the top, is deep in the water and for the life of me i can't get a smooth roll for air as i have to roll too far back up for it. and then i lose my breathing arm out in front balance thing. and i never connected my fishtailing with this, but man maybe that is part of my problem. so i try to move my head up and lead with the forehead which makes life a little easier, but i feel guilty like i am cheating and doing things wrong. so i hope to work on this at my new class. but i am too deep!!!
i gotta say that i can do a decent job with the switch drills where you swim from side to side, but when i do whole stroke it doesn't feel smooth as in my drill, i'm not really going from side to side in such an extreme way. know what i mean?
mark
Hi Mark, I completely understand what you are saying about the couple of problems you are having. Let me tell you what I think is the MOST important thing about swimming: creating a stroke natural for YOU whatever that turns out to be. And I will add one more thing: within proper stroke technique guidelines. The catch, pull, recovery with high elbows has to be there. People can talk about outsweep and insweep, but for now, I'd focus on how you can best meet the three components above. If you feel you are too deep in the water then you probably are regardless of what a TI instructor may say. You have to find your own comfort swim zone and for you, it may be slightly higher in the water than they recommend. Experiment with it and just try looking about a yard ahead when your face is in the water rather than straight down. This will slightly change your body position and rolling/rotating to breathe WILL be easier.
Talk to a TI instructor about this problem. Nothing anyone says is concrete; swimming is very individual. Shoot, my swimming could probably be criticized to no end, but I do things with my stroke for reasons such as helping bad shoulders, older and fatter, slower, etc. I make swim changes depending upon how far I am swimming to rest myself. I make adjustments all the time while swimming distance.
But you sound like you are on the right track!! Good Luck!
Donna
