Hi everyone! I wanted to pass along some of my experiences/observations of those new swimmers using T.I. I am working with a group of triathletes who had no coaching whatsoever and purchased this swim book to try to improve their swimming.
I know it can be difficult to try to learn from a book as interpretation is different for everyone. Here are two common problems I'm finding that I think should (if at all possible) be addressed by the author/TI swim instructors for further clarification.
1. Mail Slot Entry
All of the swimmers' hand/arm entry is actually an inverted "V". The hand/forearm enter the water as a downward spear right by their ear. There is no catch whatsoever because the stroke is so short. The hand goes directly downward from the ear to the pool bottom; the stroke is of no use this way because there is no catch whatsoever.
2. Low in the water
They are all too low in the water. Their heads and shoulders are completely underwater so they have to roll too much and too far to get a breath of air. This is causing "fishtailing" and a tremendous amount of body movement. I understand "chest pressing" in the water, but they have taken it too far.
I have always firmly believed in each person's stroke being "their own", but there are some components that are necessary to swim well. I'm helping them to make some of these corrections, especially regarding the mail slot entry; they are "spearing" downward which I don't believe was the point. Most all of the triathletes swim a 50 meter free in around 2 minutes. Last Sunday with some changes (they are really working on their swimming), 4 of them were swimming the 50 meter free in around 45 to 50 seconds which is a huge improvement. They said it feels better now, and they are traveling faster with less body movement and with ease.
I know the TI book has helped many to join the world of swimming, but this indicates that without coaching, a book can be misinterpreted. A picture is worth a thousand words. One last point: ALL of them were holding their breath which is the kiss of death. I never bought this book so I cannot attest to what was explained in verse or graphics.
Donna
Former Member
I used to swim with the current and used the TI stroke with great success and it felt good. But this year i started swimming half mile with the current and half against the current. It was then...fighting the current that I noticed i had to alter my stroke ...to keep in some case from actually going backwards. This goes to the crux of my original question? It seems to me that a quick catch is much more efficient than the slid and glide.....
Bobby -
I swim with a TI-type stroke. For me, it has been very effective, however, it is important that you understand that "one size does NOT fit all", even with TI. My own observations are: with the current, go as long and as relaxed as you can. Against the current, you will still have the same basic form, but the stroke rate should increase - i.e. catch a bit sooner. Note too, that against the current, you must try to present as small a profile to the current as possible. If the current is at about 90 degrees, don't be quite as long in the water - a longer body with lots of glide catches the current and you get pushed sideways.
Also, keep in mind that you want to CAREFULLY trade stroke length for speed - as you go faster, you will take an extra stroke or so per length. Don't try to hold your slow speed stroke length when you are going fast. In my case, I have a lousy (non-existant) kick. Although I can do 12-14 strokes/25 yards, I usually do more like 14 -16 strokes/25 yards. This prevents me from "stalling" since my kick does nothing to propel me much. If I had Ian Thorpe's huge feet and kick, I wouldn't stall, but I don't.
Good Luck,
LBJ
Former Member
Well thanks for the kudos....70 is just a number and i am well aware that most people that age don't do much in the way of excerise or sports. But, I don't look at life that way . I played flag football and softball until I broke my wrist 2 years ago. I participated in the senior olympics for about 10 years until it got boring and then I started TRi's at age 64.
I'm determined to improve my times in all 3 events. I worked out in the Atlantic Ocean. I usually swim a mile 3 times a week. I used to swim with the current and used the TI stroke with great success and it felt good. But this year i started swimming half mile with the current and half against the current. It was then...fighting the current that I noticed i had to alter my stroke ...to keep in some case from actually going backwards. This goes to the crux of my original question? It seems to me that a quick catch is much more efficient than the slid and glide.....I guess as has been said to each his own...but I will keep searching until i find what i am looking for. How to get faster in the water.
all your help has been much appreciated. BTW i just finished reading a thread on this forum and it seems Triathalets are not held in high regard.
but I'm not a bad old coot:thhbbb:
thanks
bobby
Bobby, you are an inspiration to many, including me! Keep it ALL moving forward!
donna
Former Member
Hip snap not for me.
Former Member
Well kinda like drinking from a fire hydrant..lots of good stuff. Some very technical and a bit over my head. My goal is to quit being one of the last ones in my age group out of the water. ..Some good advice on the hip snap....still not to clear on the hand entry and when to set the catch. I typically have been entering near the ear...streaching out to full length , gliding a bit and then setting the catch...i think i am not accelarating to the fullest when i stretch so far and delay the catch. Any way my goal is to break 20 min in the half mile constantly....i'v done it once of twice........ but need to improve....tired of seeing my bike by itself when i get out of the water.
thanks
to all for the great help
b
Former Member
....tired of seeing my bike by itself when i get out of the water.
Hey remember most folks in your age group don't even own a bike let alone go racing in triathalons. You have nothing to prove to anyone. Kudos for even doing it!
Former Member
:applaud:
Thank You, Thank You from Medina Ohio
Were forming a work out group with 1/2 real swimmers and 1/2 tri's so this post was super.
So thank you for all the good advice...
Bob
Former Member
Thanks for the clarification. We have all missed your comments lately.
The videos I have seen appear to be contrary to what I saw when you were swimming in a race. Is it that what you are doing in many of these videos is a lead up to the finished product, that is different from what is shown in the teaching videos.
Former Member
Question for any TI swimmer could you tell me does TI recommend the hand entering the water 5 inches in front of the head then pierce and extend in the water which is 880 times denser then air. My extension if I placed my hand in the water 5 inches ahead of my head would then have to extend 20 inches in heavy water rather than the lighter density air.
Former Member
Question for any TI swimmer could you tell me does TI recommend the hand entering the water 5 inches in front of the head then pierce and extend in the water which is 880 times denser then air. My extension if I placed my hand in the water 5 inches ahead of my head would then have to extend 16 inches in heavy water rather than the lighter density air.
i will try to answer this.
the "mail slot entry" (to use the same language as the article that appeared in the usms magazine) is a focal point that helps me perform several beneficial actions simultaneously. they are: a high elbow recovery, strong shoulder and hip rotation, and an integrated kicking motion (2 beat, 4 beat or what ever). all this while trying to disturb the waters surface as little as possible.
of course everyone has to find the best entry position for the speed/distance they are swimming, and my observations are that once the good habits of high elbow, body rotation, etc. are imprinted, this is more easily accomplished than when one has a flat, over-reaching stroke.
the idea that your stoke will suffer by having to extend 16 inches in heavy water doesn't take into account any forward momentum. so that the 16 inches of travel (from 5" above your head to your catch position) is only relative to your body, not distance traveled. (does that make sense?)
Former Member
posted by islandsox:
" 2. Low in the water
They are all too low in the water. Their heads and shoulders are completely underwater so they have to roll too much and too far to get a breath of air. This is causing "fishtailing" and a tremendous amount of body movement. I understand "chest pressing" in the water, but they have taken it too far."
That's exactly my problem! And I had just realized that right before I saw this discussion! Thank you! :thhbbb:I learned freestyle solely by reading T.I. It really helps a lot. But, yes, I overdid the "swimming downhill". As recently as yesterday I was almost totally immersed in water trying to swim "downhill". The result of that was, my hands and arms could hardly reach to above surface no matter how far I tried to stretch my arms, and breathing was difficult. After I read your post, today I kept my head about the same level as water surface, with face underwater, and I floated well and breathing was easier. Only problem is this didn't last the whole length. I think I need more training on balancing and breathing. I often held breath instead of exhaling--the thinking behind this was, in case I couldn't get the air in time, I would still have air in my lung being held so I won't drown. What do you think about this? :confused:
