Dara Torres-Amazing

There is no comparing what you did in your 20's & early 30's vs. your 40's....just wait. No, that's not true. I just checked our LMSC records in the 200 back Men 25-29 200 Back 1:53.60 Chris Stevenson 1/1/94 Men 30-34 200 Back 1:54.10 Chris Stevenson 5/21/95 Men 35-39 200 Back 1:55.48 Chris Stevenson 4/1/00 Men 40-44 200 Back 1:53.99 Chris Stevenson 3/9/07 The 25-29 record was done unrested when I was 29, soon after I moved to Virginia -- I'm sure I went faster at some point in the 25-29 age group in another LMSC, but I don't recall ever breaking 1:52 (and definitely not 1:51). I train a harder and smarter now, and more specifically for swimming; I did much more aerobic cross-training back then and no weight lifting, but I still got in the water pretty regularly. Hmmm. Come to think of it, that line of bull about better training sounds just like Dara Torres. I'll be sending you a sample in the mail shortly...don't drink it, tutu boy...:drink: Face it: 40 is the new 20!

I dunno ...where there's smoke.... Looks pretty condemning to me... :lmao: I could only qualify as over the limit in the "caffeinated" class.

No, that's not true. I just checked our LMSC records in the 200 back Men 25-29 200 Back 1:53.60 Chris Stevenson 1/1/94 Men 30-34 200 Back 1:54.10 Chris Stevenson 5/21/95 Men 35-39 200 Back 1:55.48 Chris Stevenson 4/1/00 Men 40-44 200 Back 1:53.99 Chris Stevenson 3/9/07 The 25-29 record was done unrested when I was 29, soon after I moved to Virginia -- I'm sure I went faster at some point in the 25-29 age group in another LMSC, but I don't recall ever breaking 1:52 (and definitely not 1:51). I train a harder and smarter now, and more specifically for swimming; I did much more aerobic cross-training back then and no weight lifting, but I still got in the water pretty regularly. Hmmm. Come to think of it, that line of bull about better training sounds just like Dara Torres. I'll be sending you a sample in the mail shortly...don't drink it, tutu boy...:drink: Face it: 40 is the new 20! Chris....my comment was in referance to John's question about putting on muscle mass in your 40's. I train far smarter now as well and finally figured out after 20 years how to rest/recover properly (and also for years have been an advocate of cross-training with yoga, spinning, etc.)....but I (and you) have yet to break any American records lately. When I see ANY 40 year old masters swimmer looking as cut and muscled as Dara who breaks the AR in any event I'll raise the same questions. And if I see anything what so ever in the mail from you I'll be sure to forward it to Geek as I know his standards are much lower than mine when it comes to getting freebies.

No, that's not true. I just checked our LMSC records in the 200 back Men 25-29 200 Back 1:53.60 Chris Stevenson 1/1/94 Men 30-34 200 Back 1:54.10 Chris Stevenson 5/21/95 Men 35-39 200 Back 1:55.48 Chris Stevenson 4/1/00 Men 40-44 200 Back 1:53.99 Chris Stevenson 3/9/07 The 25-29 record was done unrested when I was 29, soon after I moved to Virginia -- I'm sure I went faster at some point in the 25-29 age group in another LMSC, but I don't recall ever breaking 1:52 (and definitely not 1:51). I train a harder and smarter now, and more specifically for swimming; I did much more aerobic cross-training back then and no weight lifting, but I still got in the water pretty regularly. Hmmm. Come to think of it, that line of bull about better training sounds just like Dara Torres. I'll be sending you a sample in the mail shortly...don't drink it, tutu boy...:drink: Face it: 40 is the new 20! You go boy! Aren't we forgetting here that she was pregnant recently? Should we test her baby for roids? :rolleyes:

Aren't we forgetting here that she was pregnant recently? Should we test her baby for roids? :rolleyes: I heard the tyke is already benching 150 lbs. You draw your own conclusions.

I heard the tyke is already benching 150 lbs. You draw your own conclusions. :lolup::rofl::weightlifter:

but I (and you) have yet to break any American records lately True, true...and I can't come close to college times in any event...but I don't swim the 50 free. (Come to think of it...what's YOUR excuse?) Didn't Dara admit to taking creatine? And didn't I hear she struggled with anorexia back in the 80s? Maybe that accounts for the difference. But I don't see why being middle-aged in any barrier to putting on more muscle or gaining strength, the bigger problem is using it effectively in the water. I believe I am actually stronger (but slower) now than in college and at least as muscled as I was in my mid-20s. And I don't take anything (not even those fancy recovery drinks) other than a multi-vitamin and Lipitor. I'm not at all convinced that HGH and creatine actually help performance anyway, though they I guess they would make one look more buff. The online magazine Slate (which I love) has had a few articles about PEDs, including this one on HGH www.slate.com/.../ I have no idea about women vs men in terms of adding muscle, though apparently Fortress must be juicing.:weightlifter:

Oops

It is not hearsay, for the last time! Clemens has been implicated by a person who not only saw but also administered the drugs, allegedly. If you ditrectly witnessed it or, in this case, actually did it, it is NOT HEARSAY! It IS hearsay until a court of law decides it is not hearsay. An eyewitness account of a crime is hearsay evidence until it is corroborated with physical evidence. AND, I only said he was implicated by hearsay evidence. We are beyond implication since Mr. Clemens has testified in the case.

It is human nature to reject anything outside the average as "not normal". But saying that the average person couldn't do it (without drugs/cheating) is not the same as saying it couldn't be done by someone on the freakish side of the range of human ability. Exactly. Swimming is still in its infantcy (sp?) WRT professionalism and the implications that it has for keeping people in the sport for longer periods. Most of the data for swimming comes from the fact that until very recently, it has been a sport for "the kids" - start early, retire early. As it becomes something more of a career option, we'll see people staying in longer and doing better, even as they age. Also, most people who swim past college or a little later have had poor access to good coaching, general support and the like. Yes, SOME post-college swimmers have the equivalent of the better college programs, but most don't. Again, as that changes, so too will times drop for older athletes. In the case of Ms. Torres, I'd like to think that she has used her ability (and $) to make this come true. True story: About 20 years ago (1988), I was coaching a women in racewalking who was just about 40 years old. One day she called me up and was very discouraged. She said that because of her age, that she'd never be able to beat her younger competitors and make the US national team. I asked her if she knew what the women's 10k walk record had been in 1968. She didn't, so I told her what it was. I then asked her what her recent best time was and it was faster than the world record had been 20 years before. I told her that if you could go back in time and tell the people in 1968 that in1988 a 40 year old would be faster than the 1968 world record, they would tell you it was impossible. I then told her that she would need to think and train 20 years ahead of her competitors. I changed her training to force her to do some things she thought impossible and she made the US national team into her 40's and then finally retired from competition once satisfied. (P.S. No PED's involved) Call me naive, but I think that Ms. Torres is thinking and training 20 years ahead of where we are now. -LBJ