Dara Torres-Amazing

Don't you find it interesting that Susan Von Der Lippe (i.e Rapp) a multiple Olympic team member *** in individual events *** is currently not able to final or place in the top 3 at US nationals let alone win. Susan's talent and efforts are startling for her age (i.e. 1:12 100m *** made cuts for trials) No really, because breaststroke times have improved much more than freestyle times in the last 20-25 years. Susan Rapp made the '84 team with a 1:11.39 in the 100 ***, so she's not far off that time now. Granted, breaststroke rules have changed to improve times whereas freestyle hasn't. However, by Susan's own admission she's overweight and doesn't train very hard (www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx "How has your training changed since your Olympic years? I don't think I can call what I do now training. I used to swim 12,000-14,000 yards a day. Now it takes me a whole week to swim that far. I think I'll be the least-trained swimmer at the 2008 Trials. I know I'll probably be the fattest too. My husband said that since I made the Trials cut, I can now call the extra tummy fat that I earned from having two kids my "power pooch". Before, it was simply a pooch. " You can't really say the same thing about Dara.

So, apparently you aren't really curious at all. To me, Spitz has a more impressive swimming resume and that leads me to believe he is or was or whatever more talented, in case you are curious. Debating who was better in different sports eras is one of the best things about sports, and sports bars, and beer. Woods/Nicklaus, Wilt/Russell, etc. It's like arguing with a brick wall ... I am not taking away from Spitz's achievements at all. Making an Olympic team is unbelievable, medaling is amazing, getting 7 golds in one Olympics is superhuman. What I am trying to say is comparing Spitz's attempt at a comeback with Dara's is stupid. He may have won more medals in a single Olympics than Dara, but Dara has 9 medals. That's right, just as many as Spitz! Spitz won more in a single Olympics Dara qualified for four teams, and likely will qualify for a 5th. I would argue that had she kept going she'd be going for her 7th. You can compare their careers all you want, but not their comebacks. Spitz's times were right around the times he went 20! years previously and Dara's are around the times she went 7 years ago. Her's are still good enough to qualify her, his were not. She stayed in phenomenal shape for all her years off - Spitz not so much.

FlyQueen, If you want to compare talent to Spitz on the female side you need to draw from greats like Tracy Caulkins and Mary T......... this is the level we are speaking about. Dara is stellar but never "owned" an individual event the way these people "owned" their events. John smith I never said she did. But she obviously has got mad talent since she has 9 Olympic medals, which is 9 more than I'll ever lay my hands on. Maybe I'll hit my stride in my 30s ... Maybe Katie Hoff before long? She seems to be the female Phelps at least. The girl is amazing. I also think sprints are the hardest thing to dominate.

It's like arguing with a brick wall ... My wife says that too. I bet if you asked 100 swimmers over age 35 who is the most talented swimmer of all time, you'd be lucky to find 2 or 3 to say Torres. If you told them to exclude Phelps, you'd still be lucky to have that many Torres votes. This takes nothing away from her or Rowdy (who runs a great clinic BTW, shameless, non-paid promo) or Biondi or even my hero Stud. This is better than a sports bar argument, no smoking, plenty of fire, however. Now, if it's silly to compare talent, and stupid to compare comebacks, why did you bring it all up, out of curiosity.

My wife says that too and she also has a wealthy dad, but not so prone to doling out the cash. I bet if you asked 100 swimmers over age 35 who is the most talented swimmer of all time, you'd be lucky to find 2 or 3 to say Torres. If you told them to exclude Phelps, you'd still be lucky to have that many Torres votes. This takes nothing away from her or Rowdy (who runs a great clinic BTW, shameless, non-paid promo) or Biondi or even my hero Stud. This is better than a sports bar argument, no smoking, plenty of fire, however. Now, if it's silly to compare talent, and stupid to compare comebacks, why did you bring it all up, out of curiosity. If you asked 100 swimmers you'd have 100 OPINIONS. Are you kidding with they why did I bring it up? I didn't!

Like never testing positive on any drug test in her life or a boat load of Olympic medals? Pretty flimsy. Like claiming it means anything that someone "never tested positive" when they were not continuously tested (ie, were retired) and when the steriod scandals of the last however-many years have centered around undetectable substances, including those which are indistinguishable from naturally occuring substances and are only tested for in the sense that they must be below a certain threshold. And they are relay medals.

As far as talent goes, who knows she might be as talented or more so. Why do you think Spitz was more talented? (I am curious not accusing) There you go.

Skip, Why do you care what I really think about Dara? After all, I am merely and average "John Smith" on deck. My opinion is not significant. John The reason I care is because I know how you feel about this from other threads from prior years. And your opinion means something because you have been around swimming all your life and I am curious to see what you think. You are not just average John Smith. You used to come on this website a lot and give us your views of the current state of swimming. I respect that even though I have disagreed with you a lot. Paul Evil Smith has stated that until Dara has failed a drug test that its pointless to speculate. I tend to agree with him. If you don't want to say that is fine too. I just think the story that Mr. Busfield told is a total slam. Its like he has an ax to grind. He does not provide any evidence and he just speculates. He goes on to attack her previous swimming accomplishments and then he never says what he has done in this sport and how is he qualified to make such accusations. Its seems to me to be very unfair to do this to someone who as a USMS swimmer has set a good example for us to be proud of. Until she has failed a drug test, I think people should just ignore this garbage and be proud of the accomplishments.

Like claiming it means anything that someone "never tested positive" when they were not continuously tested (ie, were retired) and when the steriod scandals of the last however-many years have centered around undetectable substances, including those which are indistinguishable from naturally occuring substances and are only tested for in the sense that they must be below a certain threshold. And they are relay medals. She has individual medals too. How many relay Olympic medals do you have?

There you go. I didn't bring up Spitz.