Dara Torres-Amazing

I'm sorry to say, retirement does hinder athletic performance particularly as you age. Not racing and training for years on end does have a cumulative effect. Do we know she wasn't swimming? All I know is that she wasn't competing. It's nice to cross train, but they just don't keep you swimming fast. There is no substitute for getting in the water in the end. Paul, I'm sorry to say... you are wrong on that point (or at least, there are exceptions). I remember a sprinter when I was an undergrad. She swam, I believe, about twice a week, short yardage, and spent most of her time lifting and cross-training. (I forget if she was coming back from injury, or burned out from the swimming grind.) Absolutely blazing sprinter, finalist at Div I Nationals.

Iwannafly, Your logic is amusing. So tell me, if a drug is new and not on the banned list because some carribean drug lab has developed it and it's 5-8 years ahead of the curve and currently distributing to elite level athletes that end up breaking records, you think this is not cheating.......... Nice. I think you've extrapolated some of my thoughts. The athletes using the clear and the cream knew they were cheating. Andro wasn't new. Not even close. It had already been banned by the NFL. You know it's been around a while if the NFL has banned it. According to MLB, McGwire wasn't cheating. Where do you draw the line. Should athletes be allowed to take a multi-vitamin? You could show a correllation between multi-vitamins and staying healthy. Don't tell me you're a Yankees fan! Or are you just a fan of hallowed records?

Does money really buy a training entourage of success? Are Eddie Reese and the rest of the great coaches nationwide just missing the boat on something so basic in the formula that they should also be able to turn other old elite retired 40+ year old swimmers into national champions and AR holders in an 18-24 month period? That's what I can't figure out. Why is Dara/Dara's entourage the only ones who've figured out the winning formula? What about the rest of the coaching brain trust worldwide?

In fact, I think it was even legal back then wasn't it? At least in baseball it was. According to wikipedia, the WADA, NFL and IOC had already banned it.

McGuire cheated. He stole Maris's record. Don't kid yourself. John Smith How did he cheat if what he did was legal? The man could never stay healthy for an entire season until he started Andro. I have no doubt that without it, he would have never approached 60 homeruns. That still doesn't change the fact that it was not banned when he was using it.

A few years back I believed in a success story by the name of Mark McGwire whose pursuit of the home run record captured the nation's attention. I believed in success stories named Marion Jones, Floyd Landis, and Roger Clemens. You'll have to forgive me if I can no longer suspend my disbelief and embrace every success story in sport without question. Just because I happen to be a McGwire fan. He admitted to using Andro before it was banned by MLB.

Believe what ever you want to believe...but don't twist the words of those of us who question You know Paul, this has gone way beyond questioning. You have essentially said that what Dara Torres has done, cannot be done without cheating. Perhaps I am missing some subtle difference between questioning and accusing. I am fine with the fact that you don't believe that she should be able to swim and look like she does. I can tell you that at 38 years of age, I have pretty dramatically changed my physique just by changing my eating habits and swimming. I know at least two women who have dramatically changed their physiques in middle age just by changing diet and workout. One of them was a world class marathoner as a young woman and neither was a couch potato. I choose to believe that she is doing this legally (and ethically) until there is at least a shred of real evidence.

I just looked at the article that Gull posted on the previous page. It states "its effectiveness in enhancing physical performance is still unproved...", so even if you could show that Torres was doping with this substance (which no one has), it doesn't necessarily explain her performance. How can anyone still so readily and without question As other people have pointed out, the questions have been asked and answered. Until there are more questions or more data, that's what we have to work with. Q1) Has she been tested for doping? A1) Up the wazoo. You may not like the state of the current system, but she has gone above and beyond the call of duty to answer this question. Q2) Has she shown a drastic change in physical performance (like mediocre swimmers becoming world champions practically overnight)? A2) No. She held American and World records back in 1983, so she has always been a talent, with some of the best coaches and support staff. Q3) Shouldn't the retirement have hindered her progress? A3) Michael Jordon retired from basketball to play baseball, and was still (arguably) the best player when he came back. By all accounts, even though Torres wasn't competing during retirement, she stayed in phenomenal shape. (Tae-Bo videos come to mind.) Q4) Shouldn't loss of flexibility and recovery time be an issue? A4) She has a staff of experts to make sure she is stretching and recovering from work-outs. Q5) Is it reasonable that she is going faster now than 25 years ago? A5) Twenty-five years ago, Rowdy Gaines had the 100 free world record with 49.36. In the semis, 14 of the 16 men's swimmers went faster than this. This is most likely due to improvements in training and technique (and swimsuits :drink: ). In my opinion (and only an opinion), these improvements can be enough to offset the decrease of physical ability due to age.

"Torres must be cheating" What's really sad...and pathetic is when people respond in this manner..like Jansen and Geo as well...just because some QUESTION an otherworldly performance in sport. Its a legitimate question given the facts, given the increase in cheating going on all the way down to the junior high level (read about football in TX)...and most importantly that nothing like this has ever been achieved in sport. You can go ahead and bury your head in the sand and try and convince people that Dara's training is some amazing breakthrough...well here's a wake up call....Mike Bottom & Eddie Reece are a few years ahead of Dara's coach(s)....and GHJ has just as many if not more resources at his disposal than Dara and given his opportunity to make history himself you can rest assured he used all of them...Oh wait, he's never taken 2 x 7 year breaks in his training, hasn't twice radically reinvented his physique... Believe what ever you want to believe...but don't twist the words of those of us who question I'm not twisting anybody's words. I did in fact edit my post because I did not mean to call Gull out individually. Just because this has never been done before doesn't, and in my mind shouldn't, mean that she's cheating. It seems to me that you're placing an awful lot of faith in Mike Bottom and Eddie Reece. What if, and this is purely hypothetical, Dara's coach has hit onthe perfect formula for Dara. It is somewhat common I believe for women to get stronger after child birth. The woman that comes to mind is Mary Decker. There is a difference between questioning and outright accusing. A lot of the posts here are definitely more toward the accusing end of that spectrum.

Maybe someone will qualify for Trials at 50 next time around. Now that is a story - a member of AARP????? I'll even include anyone with spousal benefits ("AARP by Marriage"? I just love love love "Smith by Marriage"!!)