Dara just one the national title in the 100M Freestyle in 54.4 at the ripe old age of 40. Simply Incredible. :applaud: :woot:
If that's not inspiring I don't know what is.
The best part of that article...
The animals' red blood cell counts did indeed double in 10 weeks -- a potential boon for marathoners and other endurance athletes. But the monkeys' blood became so thick that it had to be regularly diluted to prevent heart failure.
Perhaps the cheaters will suffer life altering/ending consequences.
Now. Now. Let's not wish physical harm on folks. You already have to feel sorry for somebody that has their identity so tied up in winning that he/she has to resort such things.
Remember, what you mention above is just an example of one gene that can be manipulated. Apparently there are others. I wonder what happened to the mice that got their leg strength increased? What is alarming is that the article was written over 3 years ago, so we can only assume that the technique has become more refined.
I have read that WADA is desperately trying to come up with some kind of test to detect this before the Olympics. Apparently, gene therapy with athletes is out there or else they would not be pushing so hard to have a test in place. Still, from just reading about it, it looks like it would be very difficult to detect.
Actually its just the opposite, reaction time, speed, power and fast twitch muscle is all the first to go...endurance can continue to be developed into the late 30's/early 40's but typically even there it is rare for an elite athlete to make incremental improvements in times.
If you watched the trails and listened to some of Rowdy's commentary and read any of the other articles discussing this anomaly of an athlete they all said the same thing as well as pointed out how slow Dara was off the blocks
So why is it then that most of the "older" athletes at the elite level are swimming the shortest events?
I recall them saying how slow her RT was and that Natalie really creamed her off the walls, but her stroke and the power she developed made up for that in the 40 meters that lay ahead.
No implications here. Since we are discussing PEDs, if anybody is interested, there is a really good article on gene therapy and athletes at www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42270-2005Mar16.html. Shocking! No way to detect and may never be!
The 24.56 that she posted at USMS SC Nationals in 2006 shortly after giving birth to her daughter has me convinced that she is not cheating. I am assuming that she wouldn't have been endangering her child by "juicing" during her pregnancy or during nursing.
Hence, this time is very impressive given her physical condition at the time (she could be seen walking somewhat gingerly around the deck). I think we can agree that she was not in the optimum condition to swim competitively given the circumstances. It is my guess that this performance has not been achieved by any other 39 year old female swimmer so soon after giving birth. In fact, it could also be called an anomaly. I highly doubt that she was benefitting from performance enhancing drugs right after giving birth.
I think that Dara Torres' swimming talent is the true anomaly. Take perhaps the best technical female freestyler, add in a 6+ foot frame, and a focus on conditioning that we have not seen from a 40 year old female swimmer before...then I think you end up with performances like we saw at Olympic Trials (regardless of age). I choose to be impressed with what I saw and to reserve judgement where no proof otherwise exists.
Remember, not a lot of "ultra elite" swimmers have attempted what she has. Many Olympic champions throughout history simply gave it up after their first Olympic triumph because they were not granted the resources that are available to today's Olympic heroes and most others did not entertain thoughts of an historic "comeback" such as this.
Perhaps it was the 2006 USMS performance that gave her the confidence that it could be done and that it was worth pursuing.
Having said all that, it is also not fair to say that fans should not be suspicious. Because of today's performance enhancing climate, unfortunately, everyone (not just those with extraordinary accomplishments) needs to be scrutinized. For now, random testing and testing during championship events is probably the best way to achieve this.
For Paul - what do you think of Dara's very proactive position on testing? As a doubter - do you just believe she is just incredibly confident that her regimen is foolproof and cannot be caught by either today's or tomorrow's testing? Is she just willing to risk it - and the complete disgrace that would occur if she fails a test next year?
I expected nothing less. And for the record I hope she never dos fail as it would be a huge black eye for our sport...and hopefully something comes out of it that can help all of us get better.
On the other hand Balco's clear/cream were undetectable and Bonds & Marion stood up and shouted down everyone accusing them until an insider sent in samples that ultimately led to the discovery of these undetectable PED's....they were pretty confident as were all the others involved with that lab.
Look at the Tour de France...as one journalist said after Beltran just tested positive for EPO "you got to be an idiot to be using anything with all the testing going on"....pretty confident guy along with the 20 others who the day before yesterday had samples with problems requiring "B" samples to tested....more positives to come I'm afraid.
I am not attacking, it is just that this whole thread is about accusing Dara without proof.
Wrong George. This whole thread is about "QUESTIONING" Dara based on her performance and physical transformation.
Answer me this....do you support random, year around drug testing for all swimmers?
If you answer yes than you show suspicion, if you answer no than you support your position that all is good in the world and cheating doesn't exist and we should all shut up.
Paul,
I could swear that I read about aging athletes having a better chance at staying at the elite level with short events rather than endurance events, on this forum and in these Dara threads. They are so long now that it's tough to find what I am remembering. But as I mentioned, there are some notable sprinters who could be considered world class at ages over 30, but who over the age of 30 is swimming high level 200 fly or 200 ***? What about 400 IM? A portion of my theory (not sure if I made this up or read it earlier!) is based upon the fact that a sprinter can get away with less yardage than a 400 IM'er, and thus the shorter events are less taxing on the aging body.
I've looked a bit for supporting evidence but have not found much thus far.
Edit: Interesting info about the benefits of creatine.
I have wondered why our 400 I.M. stars and distance freestylers tend to peak at a younger age while, as I mentioned, you see many athletes in other endurance sports improve into their thirties. You raise a good question that would be interesting to research.
We agree!
Holy crap, the world may end at any moment!!!:hug:
Now, if I can just get John Smith to admit that his animosity towards Mark McGwire is based in his secret adulation for the Yankees (or worse, the Rockies)!
I will continue to believe in Dara Torres until some evidence comes up. You know that if she's cheating, somebody, one of these days, will figure out a way to out her. Just like McNamee did to Clemens! She has to have made some enemies along the way.
We agree! I will continue to accept that she has not failed any tests is innocent until prven guilty, but I will also continue to have doubts when I see athletic performaces that break boundries sucha as this.
And Tracy...to be clear I have not spoken to anyone who has evidence that Dara has cheated. I have spoken to a lot of folks that feel very strongly that there is far more cheating in swimming going on than we can imagine and that maybe the naivette that has existed in our sport has kept us from being as vigilant as maybe we could.
SCY...are you just guessing or have you actually read much about this? I have yet to read anything that supports your position? I've read very little that supports the position that speed declines and endurance gains. Here's an interesting example sort of supports both of our positions:
Speed and age - The bad news is that speed declines with age; the good news is that you can arrest, even reverse, this degenerative process
"Fast-twitch muscle fibre, that most precious of commodities for speed and power, displays a much more marked decline than slow-twitch fibre as we age. Speedsters, it appears, are not as blessed as endurance athletes in the ageing-and-performance stakes. The latter can expect to maintain their slow twitch fibres and even increase them – by as much as 20% with the right training – as they ripen. They can also hold on to nearly all their aerobic capacity until late into their fifth decade at least. If only it were so for their sprinting counterparts, whose fast-twitch fibre can decline by as much as 30% between the ages of 20 and 80. "
www.pponline.co.uk/.../speed-age.html
I hate cheating/cheaters
