Dara Torres-Amazing

God forbid they have to watch what they eat or actually exercise. American culture... a pill for everything.

Interesting that I'm typing this in a hotel room in Vegas with FOX running a story about that found that as many as 8% of high school girls are taking steroids... Why are you telling us this? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas Paul!! ;)

Wow. I'm surprised that's the kind of look a teenaged girl would want to achieve. Kirk, it's not for the bulk its for the fat burning.

I actually appreciate it when someone calls me out for talking out my :mooning:. I do not know much about law. My original point was that there was at least some evidence to implicate both Clemens and Jones. Whether McNamee is lying will be up to someone else to determine and Jones was implicated by association with a coach known for doping. There has been no evidence of any sort to implicate Torres! Just conjecture...let's see if I got that right...

Pettite did not see anything. His stuff is hearsay he thinks he heard something and Clemens said he misunderstood..

So, geochuck, here is your argument in a nutshell - universally trust the athlete, period. Those of us that live on planet Earth have yet to see a single elite athlete do this beyond 35, much less 40. The ones that have done it have been proven dopers. We are not talking about just competing here. We are talking about winning at the highest elite level. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I feel like a dupe here because a while back I said Roger Clemens was an example of doing it with hard work beyond 40. So much for that example.

Do you have any proof other than a couple of pictures that prove Dara is other than a beautiful well conditioned athlete. Is she doing anything illegal? I guess the whole discussion is not valid. Do you have any proof that she, or Clemmons, or Marion aren't? The point is and has been testing is way behind the cheaters and in my opinion if an athlete does something never seen or done before than its inherant in us to ask and question. I'm all for innocent until proven guilty and although I have serious doubts about her (as I did with Bonds) I'm not willing to call her a cheater. But the reality is cheating in sports is happening a LOT at all levels. So we either question and test everyone or we simply stop testing all together and let anyone use anything they want....or offer 2 divisions I guess and go the way of "open" vs. "natural" bodybuilding.

Chris Stevenson, Comparing Susan with Dara is not that good of a comparison. Note, Susan made her Olympic teams in individual events not just relays. Susan is very naturally strong and talented, but she has not transformed her body as dramatically as Dara. Susan is respectably close to her career best times in the 100 ***, but is not going to top 8 let alone win ..... let alone set an Amercian Record in the event. Susan appears to be the first real masters swimmer (with a masters swimmers lifestyle and attitude) to be able to qualify and race at the trials. Susan is doing something phenomenal. Frankly, I am more interested in Susan's performance at the trials than's Dara's performance. I find Susan's swims stunning given her routine and daily demands....... despite the fact that she DQ'd my son at the last meet in Loveland, CO !!!! Dara's phyique and accomplishments look totally different to me. I would not compare the two as one supporting the other. John Smith They do look physically different. What if Susan trained like Dara? Susan is not the first real masters swimmer to swim at Trials. Wally Dicks has done that.

What if it is not true and he is proven to be a liar. I would love for him to take a lie detector test. Huh? Whatcha saying there? An eyewitness account is direct evidence, not hearsay evidence. It may not be as reliable as circumstantial evidence, but is completely admissible. Hearsay evidence is unverified info heard or received from another that is not personally known. For example, if someone repeated an eyewitness account that they heard from the eyewitness, that would be hearsay.

HGH If a small person that used HGH to get themselves to be within the average size zone be considered a druggie in your opinion. I happen to know a family that was what we called little people that had the injections. I consider a druggie anyone who chooses to use a banned substance or chooses to go to an organization such as balco for a product that is not yet recognized and therefore not approved or illegal that will enhance their performance....anyone with legitimate medical needs working with a doctors supervision has nothing to do with this discussion George.