Flip turn questions

Lately I have been really working hard to improve my turns and I have a few questions about a fast sprint freestyle turn. 1. On the push off you to initiate the rotation onto your belly with your feet or by pushing off straight and twisting your upper body? 2. Does it matter what side you rotate to? For example if you are right handed rotate to your left? 3. Where should your arms be for the best streamline. Covering the ears or slightly behind? 4. How deep should you be when you push off? The center of the "+" on the wall? 5. How do you roll to get a deeper push off? Thanks for any help or advice given. KEvin Kevin, 1. Push off the wall on your back & then rotate while in your streamline. 2. Doesn't matter. Do what's most comfortable for you. 3. "They" say squeeze head between arms. To me that translates to arms over ears.. I think, in part, it's a flexability issue. 4. Depth... can't say. Try to aim feet for the cross. You don't want to be deep, but you don't want to be grzing the surface either. 5. Controlling the push depends on where you put your feet & how you position underwater as you push off. Try to get arms SL asap and you can use your hands to direct your body, like a rudder. I'm having a hard time explaining this. Maybe someone else can do better. Hope it helps. Dana

Thanks, that helps. Kevin

In my opinion and I repeat my opinion, when you push off the wall your body should be at about a 90 degree angle but the feet should be placed on the wall at 45 degrees. I do not agree with trying to push off on your back as this causes too much torque to get back around to the front and results in loss of momentum. Most people will, if you breathe to the right, turn to the left. The other major item is hand positioning. They should catch the water by turning the palms up and raising the arms up over and slightly in back of the head. Don't allow them to go out to the side. Keep them in line with the shoulders, over the head and then simply extend forward for the pushoff and streamline.

My biggest challenge with flip-turns is managing my arms. As a kid i developed the bad habit of using them to propel my turn. As a result, i ended the flip with my arms out from my side. The time it took to recover to streamline was precious. I've been working all my life to correct that error by trying to end the flip with both arms extended foreword ready for push off. But it's hard to break the habit. When exhausted, I can't make the flip without arms and, again, they wind up perpendicular to my torso. It's my biggest issue. I have strong core muscles, but i need a drill or solution.

Kevin - my responses begin with a ">>" 1. On the push off you to initiate the rotation onto your belly with your feet or by pushing off straight and twisting your upper body? >> I am already 90 degrees onto my side when I push off, so probably upper body. 2. Does it matter what side you rotate to? For example if you are right handed rotate to your left? >> I am pretty much used to rolling left b/c of circle swimming. I don't know that it has much to do with me being right handed - its always been more comfortable that way. 3. Where should your arms be for the best streamline. Covering the ears or slightly behind? >> I go slightly behind 4. How deep should you be when you push off? The center of the "+" on the wall? 5. How do you roll to get a deeper push off? >> depends... if you want to do some sdk, give yourself some room underwater to get a couple good strong kicks in w/o kicking air with your heels. for me, its more the pushoff itself that gets the deeper roll. i tend to sumersault about 175 degrees and push off downward, as my feet are higher than my head. It helps get that deeper pushoff to get under my wave and get in those SDKs. regardless, push off deep enough to at least get a good streamline and build that kick engine up... :2cents:

In my opinion and I repeat my opinion, when you push off the wall your body should be at about a 90 degree angle but the feet should be placed on the wall at 45 degrees. I do not agree with trying to push off on your back as this causes too much torque to get back around to the front and results in loss of momentum. One of the problems I have is that I don't get a solid connection with my feet on the wall. This is only when I hit the wall during a sprint. Several years ago I injured my left knee and ended up having surgery to repair it. And I think the lack of strength in that leg effects how solid of a connection I make on the wall. Especially since I would rotate to my right, placing more of the demands of the push to my left leg. At speed I would pause as I hit the wall and occasionally shuffle my feet. It feels like I am crashing into the wall instead of bouncing off of it. Pushing off that way is also the exact opposite of how I would push of the wall to for a 25 sprint or even jump on dry land. On dry land I jump rotate to my left and reach with my right hand. I would think that I should do the same when pushing off on my flip turn. So this past week I have been trying that (rotating to my left) and it feels like I get a much better connection to the wall and a more powerful push. But I am not sure I am streamlining as best as I could be or if I am getting deep enough. And at times I seem to throw my feet down to connect instead of straight to the wall after I flip. Either way, I'm swimming in meet this weekend and my wife is going to tape my turns. Hopefully I will see where I need to improve. My goal is to keep my 25's in my 50 free to with in a second of each other. Right now its over 2 and all that time is lost in my turn. Kevin

I have tried to put my technique into words before, but without much luck. Let me try again. As you approach the wall (exactly where requires testing), begin to lower your head and allow your arms to end up at your sides, palms down. Keep lowering your head, you are going to tuck it under very soon. Press down on your hands, and tumble straight over, tucking the head. The effect is kind of like a parallel bars move, where you go over and your arms stay where you left them, pointing toward the far end of the pool, in a more or less streamlined position. Now you can plant your feet on the wall (flat on your back, or, like me, rolled halfway) and push off. I believe the proper depth is probably about 16-20 inches, deep enough so you don't kick up a wave, but not so deep that you need to fight your way back up. Try to be really relaxed as you drop your head and flip. Let your momentum carry your legs over. Be comfy ending up on your back, its only for a couple of seconds. I recommend practicing the movements away from the wall untill the flip is easy, then move closer and practice the distance. Hitting the bulkhead with your heels with not improve your day! I do all flipturns in my workouts. 5300 yds in a 25 yd pool means a lot of practice.

I did my 5300 (3 miles in 1:16:30) freestyle last week, all flipturns, in the local 25 yd pool. I try for smoothness and effortlessness. I noticed that I was having the feeling that as I got close to the wall, I sort of "slid through a tube". It was as though there was a U shaped tube that I had to slip though without touching the sides. It was a bit different feeling than the "flip-stop-pushoff" kind of turn. I love flipturns.

I actually borrowed the "swimming Faster: Turns for all strokes." DVD from the spma zone library. The flip turn in the DVD is taught much like the one described in this article. www.h2oustonswims.org/.../flip_turns.html I've gotten to where I feel the "U" shaped tube you describe but only when I come off the wall on my back. If I try to pivot and come off on my side I don't come off straight and can even hear the difference underwater. Right now I am working on the best way to get to my stomach after the push. If I twist as I push, somehow I slow down. Perhaps because I am breaking my streamline. And If I do a slow cork screw it feels akward and it seems to take to long. But at least this is faster by almost a full second. Last thursday I swam a 50 from the blocks and went 23.50. But I tried to twist to my side off the turn and when I did I felt immediate resistence as I pushed off the wall. And I don't think I came off straight either. My splits were 10.45 and 13.05 (hand timed). The 10.45 is my fastest first 25 since I've been timing myself and getting 25 splits. My goal is to consistently have less than a second difference between each 25. This has been hard, but I am working on it in every practice. Kevin

I agree with a lot that has been written here, especially paularhibald. But I do not flip over and end up on my back because at that point a swimmer then has to then "take the time" to get on their side and push off. This is way too much movement when you are trying to push off to start with. Also, I prefer to go deep off the walls to avoid the incoming wave; you know, get under it. donna