I have been reading and watching posts and replies, on the General forum, as well as Coaching forum, that seem to dismiss the importance of having developed triceps. I may be wrong, but what I surmised is that even though having a longer stroke is of great importance (and I am an advocate of a longer sroke depending upon the distance and actual stroke being swum), that many people including Kaizen making statements that a long stroke is better, there is much conclusion that "finishing" the stroke lower on the leg has several problems: 1) it takes tricep strength so avoid it and 2) finishing shorter and closer to the waist area is the way to go.
Now granted, a 50 free sprint probably needs a lesser SPL than a 200 or 400, but my concern in this topic is that there may be a message to other swimmers that finishing later on the body requires more strength in the back of the arm (triceps) so avoid it. My Word: Wrong!!
Every great, great swimmer I have ever seen has the arms of Hercules, both in biceps, shoulders and triceps. And even at my older age and a fatter body, the one remaining muscle group that is ripped is the triceps on my arms because they have been trained over years and carry me through even now. Having these great muscles developed continues to aid in my powerfully finishing my stroke and setting up for the next one. Triceps DO provide propulsion in the stroke finish/recovery portion of the stroke, so making sure they are developed, as well as other components of your body, is extremely important. Just one swimmer's point of view....and open for discussion.....
donna
:rolleyes:I'm not sure I'd ever take a drink handed to me by Jimi, I do believe in drylands and I do believe well-developed triceps are important to swimming fast. I also agree there's a variant of a pushup that can target the tris. I just don't think that the classic pushup is particularly focused on the tris or particularly great for swimming. I also can't do many, never have been able to do many and don't recall many of my speedier teammates back in the day or today calling out a pushup as a key component of their training regimen. I think they are great for fitness, but still don't believe the ability to do them and do many of them is a necessary condition to swimming fast.
I'm not big on the "classics." :D Though I'm quite sure you could benefit from some good ole pull ups. :)
Push ups are great core work, especially in the myriad variations you can do using med balls, elevation, bosus. They're not just for the "chest." Next you'll be saying planks aren't core work. :rolleyes:
Try some skull crushers too!
Pfttttt!
Please do not generalize. :)
Why not when the generalization is true? This is not sexism in any way. Women simply have about 20% less muscle mass then men so the pushup will be more difficult. See here:
www.nytimes.com/.../11well.html
Just to be clear: that does not mean that SOME women are not stronger than SOME men but that is not the rule but rather the exception to the general rule.
That does not mean that SOME women are not stronger than SOME men but that is not the rule but rather the exception to the general rule.
You don't have to be stronger than men to do good push ups.
I avoid push-ups because of left shoulder (has fully dislocated many times in the past). Unfortunately, I am required twice a year to do them as part of a PT test with the AF reserves. But I can do zero push-ups and still pass by making up in the run, sit-ups, and waist measurment.
Anyhow, push-ups, bench and military presses, and other chest exercises seem to pull my upper arm bone to a more vulnerable position. On the other hand, arm curls, lat exercises, and many shoulder movements seem to do the opposite and help the shoulder.
In any case, after I sprint a 100 in a race the muscles groups I feel have been worked the most are the outer and upper lats, triceps, frontal thighs, abdominal muscles and my sides. Longer swims seem to fatigue shoulders more.
Have you been drinking the Jimi koolaid again? Drylands, including push ups, do have some correlation to swim speed. That's why all the speedy swimmers do them.
If you want to work your triceps, do tricep push ups on a med ball. I think even girls can do them.
Don't even need a ball. make a triangle or inverse heart with thumbs and index fingers...lower nose into the shape as you push up.
You don't have to be stronger than men to do good push ups.
Again, that' not what I said. :help:
Yeah, statements like these -- "the pushup is a very challenging exercise for women" -- are just dumb and perpetuate stereotypes. I wouldn't want my daughters to read that. Oh, wait, my daughter's best subject is math and she can do loads of push ups ...
I watched some teen boys doing drylands the other day at he end of my 9 year old's practice -- pathetic!
That is a very emotional non-rational response. Also you are trying to counter a scientific fact (% of muscle mass) with anecdotal stories. That is a no-no.
As to math, the fact is that there are very few women studying advanced math in higher education. Interesting because that is not the case in advanced high school math. That is an indisputable fact. You can explain it in various ways but the fact stands.
Here's my generalization (without regard to a person's gender, age, creed, religion, political affiliation, sexual preference, favorite color, etc.): ability to do pushups has close to zero correlation with ability to swim fast.
As I mentioned, the entire idea of transferability of dry land strength to water is an open question.
The Army expects men to be able to do more push-ups than women--
* Men's 37 to 41 standards
* Women's 37 to 41 standards
To get max points (100), a guy has to do 73, while a woman only has to do 40. I think both those are increases from when I was in, I think it was closer to 60, and I was a bit younger then. Sit-ups are much more closely aligned.
Well, obviously the army has got it wrong (chick logic:bump:)
