I have been reading and watching posts and replies, on the General forum, as well as Coaching forum, that seem to dismiss the importance of having developed triceps. I may be wrong, but what I surmised is that even though having a longer stroke is of great importance (and I am an advocate of a longer sroke depending upon the distance and actual stroke being swum), that many people including Kaizen making statements that a long stroke is better, there is much conclusion that "finishing" the stroke lower on the leg has several problems: 1) it takes tricep strength so avoid it and 2) finishing shorter and closer to the waist area is the way to go.
Now granted, a 50 free sprint probably needs a lesser SPL than a 200 or 400, but my concern in this topic is that there may be a message to other swimmers that finishing later on the body requires more strength in the back of the arm (triceps) so avoid it. My Word: Wrong!!
Every great, great swimmer I have ever seen has the arms of Hercules, both in biceps, shoulders and triceps. And even at my older age and a fatter body, the one remaining muscle group that is ripped is the triceps on my arms because they have been trained over years and carry me through even now. Having these great muscles developed continues to aid in my powerfully finishing my stroke and setting up for the next one. Triceps DO provide propulsion in the stroke finish/recovery portion of the stroke, so making sure they are developed, as well as other components of your body, is extremely important. Just one swimmer's point of view....and open for discussion.....
donna
Former Member
Several of the exercises mentioned do require gym equipment, I believe, such as the dip assist and tricep extensions. The thumb to thigh basically means that the swimmer is finishing their stroke when their thumb brushes by the thigh instead of finishing the stroke more at waist level. By finishing the stroke further on the leg, the triceps come into play.
I don't have gym equipment, but I do use StretchCordz, the 90 pound resistance ones and I do a lot of tricep work with them, as well as other arm and shoulder strengthening movements.
I know people who have no equipment at all so they fill up 1 gallon water bottles and use those to strengthen their triceps by standing up straight, arms overhead, elbows bent so hands/forearms are facing down behind them, and then they lift those bottles which isolates the triceps.
Hope this helps some.
donna
My triceps are pretty well developed, and the only activity I engage in that would likely do this is swimming. I tend to extend my arms as much as possible at the beginning and end of all strokes. This is most pronounced in the front & back crawl strokes (obviously *** & fly have shorter pulls). I tend to do equal amounts of each stroke at each practice, very few drills and props (boards, buoys, etc... mostly just swim). And I tend to do short sets with lots of rest (nothing over 300yds w/o stopping to rest now). All of this is because my shoulders (as well as most of my extremities) are thoroughly wrecked with arthritis.
I believe everyone adapts to what works for them. And no doubt the strategy/technique for sprints is way different than long distance open water swims.
In my “free” technique I tend to have my recovering arm almost completely straight before it enters the water (which I’ve no doubt is bad news for long-distance swims). I believe it improves my streamlining and balance for this stroke. I also tend to try and pull/push all the way back, reaching back (and forward) with my shoulders, occasionally brushing my thigh with my thumb as a drill to see how far back I’m going. For me the key is an elbow first recovery, keeping the recovering arm very relaxed. I reach out as far with the forward arm as I can for the catch, following the entry with my shoulder, sometimes (as a drill) till I get a stretch in my lats. Good shoulder rotation (in free) seems necessary to properly engage the core muscles, especially the lats.
On all my strokes I try to stretch into the stroke (like I’m dong Yoga), and make the fullest stroke that is comfortably possible. I focus on this and streamlining, as well as trying to activate as many muscles as possible for each pull. (i.e. Actively trying to engage back and other core trunk muscles whenever possible, which takes some extra effort, for me anyway.)
I don’t think the development of my triceps is limited to free, but that they are engaged in all my strokes. As I’ve tweaked my fly technique over the past two years or so I’ve noticed some significant (nice :-) changes in my upper body tone (but that is another thread topic). I believe my fly practice has also really helped my free and *** pulls, getting better use of core muscles.
In 1994 I could not lift my elbows above my shoulders, so I could not extend my arms over my head (while horizontal or vertical, in water or out). Now I can do 100’s of yards of butterfly in a practice if I choose to (but it was past Y2K, over 6yrs, before fly was even a faint spark in my brain). The changes that resulted in my recovery are best measured in years, but sometimes months.
I’m a bit baffled sometimes by folks claiming shoulder injuries from swimming, as it has had the opposite effect on me. But I’m guessing it is from overuse and stress, as on the days I try to dial up my intensity I get messages from my shoulders that I need to back off.
Moderation is the key.
Tricep dips take no equipment, but I also find that triceps are the muscles that really respond to using stretch cords or bands, which are inexpensive and easily stored. There are quite a few tricep exercises you can do with these and really get a good burn.
Any of the exercise shown here with weights can be done with a band except the close grip barbell press. A substitute for them is the close push-ups, also shown. I also really love the tricep push-ups on the ball shown at the bottom picture.
exercise.about.com/.../blsampletricep.htm
When l've lifted weights in the past I noticed that my triceps were MUCH stronger than my biceps, by as much as 20 pounds. I was astounded. I guess I never realized how much I use my triceps in swimming...
Has anyone seen Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen's video on freestyle? She has an interesting perspective as she relates swimming freestyle to paddling on a surfboard. She emphasizes strength in the front quadrant part of the stroke. She demonstrates it very well.
hey Bud, good essay.
Please define: "an elbow first recovery"
In front crawl, after the pull/push, the arm is recovered by leading with the elbow.
If you finish with the arm all the way back (i.e. brush you thigh with your thumb), this is easy to accomplish.
I find this helps me keep the arm more relaxed in the recovery. It also helps me keep more balanced while moving forward, and keeps most of my energy going forward. Leading the recovery with the elbow allows you to fit in a narrower slot too, which is what helps with my balance in going through the water.
This technique also naturally gives you the desired “elbows high” position. I was doing “elbows high” for decades before I knew it was something desirable, so it kind of baffles me why “elbow first” is seemingly never mentioned anymore to attain that goal. The “fingertip drag” drill (grazing the surface with your fingertips), and especially the “zipper drill” (dragging the thumb up your side), effectively accomplish the same thing. These are all more easily done the more you finish out your pull/push.
Also, as pointed out earlier in this thread, it is the push portion of the stroke that more actively engages the triceps. I too am an advocate of long strokes (for a reduced stroke count per distance). It makes the most sense to me. Why burn all that energy on the recovery if you are not going to get the most out of the power portion of the stroke?
The most awkward recovery I see people do is more like a (rough?) butterfly recovery, with the arm exiting sideways, usually stiff and straight, which seems to cause unnecessary resistance (reduced streamlining) and throw the stroke way off balance (tossing a lot of energy sideways, rather than forward). Folks who use this recovery method in front crawl also generally tend to attack the water on the entry, while I prefer a smooth, relaxed entry.
My idea is that the whole recovery (especially in front crawl) should be very relaxed, as should any muscles that don’t help you go forward. This is one area where yoga and swimming have a LOT in common: Learning to relax the muscles you do need, and activating the muscles you do need for the task at hand. (While I reckon this concept is true for any athletic endeavor, it seems to ring especially true in swimming.)
(see some additional related thoughts here)
I think the idea is that we buy the DVD, but I borrowed it (sorry Karlyn) from Kerry (O'Brien). He suggested I take a look at the last section as I peppered him with yet more questions about my stroke!
On a side note: I was impressed that there was sort of a disclaimer in the video (intended for age-groupers I guess) that you should always do what your coach tells you, and that her technique is just another way to do the stroke.
As far as the stroke goes she just really emphasizes the front quadrant part of the stroke, and she sets her catch in the front REALLY fast and then engages all arm muscles. The finish isn't emphasized as much as the catch, because your larger arm muscles are more engaged in the catch (and actual pull). Also, she does not cross that imaginary mid-line as her hands enter the water, in fact she enters about shoulder width, or how you would if you were paddling on a surfboard.
It made sense to me. I'd recommend seeing it for yourself though. I'm sure I'm not doing her technique justice with my words!
I was talking about her stroke with one of our other coaches and we both wondered how Karlyn doesn't have shoulder problems- she rolls still from side to side but with her wide pull- it looks like there is a lot of pressure on her shoulders. We also talked about that while her technique is different, from what most coaches teach, it's still really good.... In a nut-shell Karlyn is just Karlyn and an incredibly talented swimmer (not to mention nice person :) )
Has anyone seen Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen's video on freestyle? She has an interesting perspective as she relates swimming freestyle to paddling on a surfboard. She emphasizes strength in the front quadrant part of the stroke. She demonstrates it very well.
I haven't seen the video. Do you have any more info you can share on Karlyn's technique?
Found a post of your's from almost 4 years ago on USMS. You talked about the importance of building your triceps. How? I really want to build my triceps but can't find info on what stroke strengthens what muscles. Can you help?
