I have been reading and watching posts and replies, on the General forum, as well as Coaching forum, that seem to dismiss the importance of having developed triceps. I may be wrong, but what I surmised is that even though having a longer stroke is of great importance (and I am an advocate of a longer sroke depending upon the distance and actual stroke being swum), that many people including Kaizen making statements that a long stroke is better, there is much conclusion that "finishing" the stroke lower on the leg has several problems: 1) it takes tricep strength so avoid it and 2) finishing shorter and closer to the waist area is the way to go.
Now granted, a 50 free sprint probably needs a lesser SPL than a 200 or 400, but my concern in this topic is that there may be a message to other swimmers that finishing later on the body requires more strength in the back of the arm (triceps) so avoid it. My Word: Wrong!!
Every great, great swimmer I have ever seen has the arms of Hercules, both in biceps, shoulders and triceps. And even at my older age and a fatter body, the one remaining muscle group that is ripped is the triceps on my arms because they have been trained over years and carry me through even now. Having these great muscles developed continues to aid in my powerfully finishing my stroke and setting up for the next one. Triceps DO provide propulsion in the stroke finish/recovery portion of the stroke, so making sure they are developed, as well as other components of your body, is extremely important. Just one swimmer's point of view....and open for discussion.....
donna
Former Member
Absolutely Donna. I agree 100%.
I sometimes do some tricep exercises with my therabands to give them a little abuse when I am not going to the pool for a day or so.
When your arm is anchored in the water, your lats help you get your body over it. The triceps seem to come in at the back end of the pull while the lats are used throughout.
When your arm is anchored in the water, your lats help you get your body over it. The triceps seem to come in at the back end of the pull while the lats are used throughout.
First of all....Nice thread Donna!
I try and focus a lot on both lats and tricepts in the weight room for exactly this reason Nancy....but I've also been told that its a good idea to do a well rounded weight regiment that includes the shoulders, chest, tricepts, lats, and even some bicepts in order to maintain a certain muscle balance. Without the right balance of muscle groups working together you could be more prone to injury (or at least thats what I've been told that is??). So I put most of my upperbody focus on lats, tricepts, and abs / back....and I mix in a sufficient amount of military press, bench press, and curls as well. I also do a few other exercises that combine several of these muscle groups as well.
Newmastersswimmer.
p.s. If your tricepts are anything like your bicepts Fort (Ala the pic you showed me of your gun) then I would have to say that your tricepts must be pretty strong then LOL!
I sure am glad that many believe the triceps are crucial to swimming. Initially what brought me to this topic was reading lots of replies on threads whereby people had been told to finish the stroke earlier so the back of the arms wouldn't get tired and I found this to be very poor advice. We need those muscles at the back end of the stroke and to avoid working them is like, well, short-changing the swimmer. I need every part of me to be strong, especially since my 350 yd fly challenge training starts tomorrow and I won't be doing any butterfrogging; total proper form with full dolphin kick or I will not do it at all!!!
donna
I think you need those triceps. I do the dip assist, tricep kickbacks or tricep extensions. I think the finish of freestyle is essentially a tricep extension. Plus, tricep work is good for shoulders. My ART guy recently said to me that, when the shoulders start hurting, better do more tricep kickbacks.
The issue of the "finish" is a slippery ground. Everyone disagrees about how to optimize the pulling range. I personally think sprinters are finishing their strokes, and taking long, powerful, high SR strokes. So I will keep finishing mine and using my triceps. I guess if you swim mid-to-long distance, you may be early exiting and throwing forward more with a catch up style in front. I think I adjust my style a bit in practice (along with the SPL) depending on the distance I'm swimming. I have heard people say that, if you want to minimize shoulder issues, you can't have both a long finish in front and a long finish in back. I don't know. Even people that are early exiting look like they have some kind of follow through to the exit ... (I also wonder whether the overhead extension in front is harder on shoulders? Or maybe it's just the shorter stroke is easier on shoulders? My shoulders just don't like freestyle much at all.)
This is definitely one of those different strokes for different folks issues. I guess I'd like to keep my triceps strong.
I never knew what part of the stroke was tiring out my triceps. One of the things I've focused on is finishing the stroke, thumb to thigh. I guess I'm doing that part right. :)
I'd like to know what other major muscles are taxed by each phase of the stroke as well (biceps, deltoids etc).
I completly agree as well Donna! When I am lifting weights, I can only do certain machines because of my shoulders, but one that I always use is the dip assist which works your triceps...and I firmly believe that the benefits of having strengthened and toned those muscles alone aid me remarkably in my turnover speed and the end of the stroke.
islandsox;84302
I sure am glad that many believe the triceps are crucial to swimming. Initially what brought me to this topic was reading lots of replies on threads whereby people had been told to finish the stroke earlier
Finishing the stroke early/ier means doing only half a stroke.
A stroke at the grab is a pull (whether you pull the water towards you or pull yourself over where you have made a grab and involves wrist, forearm, biceps, pecs and lats) and then it's followed by a push backwards. During that push phase, it's mostly triceps.
Even when you look at sprinters, not one of them will start their (high elbow) recovery as soon as their pulling forearm is vertical; they will all -to one degree or another- push back before their recovery. Moreover, any movement of the arm -beyond the vertical forearm- that does not actively push back would mean that the arm is actually dragging and braking your forward momentum.
Apart from working my triceps (on dryland) I will usually do several 25 ms at about 85% power where I concentrate on a going-through-the-motion pull but a fully conscious push. You do feel the added power to the forward motion (and pushing after the pull becomes second nature).
.......so the back of the arms wouldn't get tired and I found this to be very poor advice.
See the contradiction that Islandsox points out here (in terms of poor advice)?
If "they" found that the back of the arms (i.e., triceps) would get tired, it means that it (the back of the arm) is being used (for propulsion). Therefore the solution is to strenghthen it, not "not" use it.
When I swim all my muscles get tired. Should I therefore not use any motion at all in any muscle "in order not to get tired"?
This is a good discussion. Currently, the only dry land exercises I do are palm-out chin-ups, for my upper lats, and tucked push ups (elbows against my side) for my triceps. These are all I know. All you swimming techies have lots of good ideas….. but you assume others understand you If possible could someone please define the following terms I’ve read in this thread:
Finishing the stroke, thumb to thigh (3-20)
Dip assist (3-20)
Tricep kickbacks or tricep extensions and high SR strokes (3-20)
Any other dry land exercises – with definitions would be highly appreciated.
