I have been reading and watching posts and replies, on the General forum, as well as Coaching forum, that seem to dismiss the importance of having developed triceps. I may be wrong, but what I surmised is that even though having a longer stroke is of great importance (and I am an advocate of a longer sroke depending upon the distance and actual stroke being swum), that many people including Kaizen making statements that a long stroke is better, there is much conclusion that "finishing" the stroke lower on the leg has several problems: 1) it takes tricep strength so avoid it and 2) finishing shorter and closer to the waist area is the way to go.
Now granted, a 50 free sprint probably needs a lesser SPL than a 200 or 400, but my concern in this topic is that there may be a message to other swimmers that finishing later on the body requires more strength in the back of the arm (triceps) so avoid it. My Word: Wrong!!
Every great, great swimmer I have ever seen has the arms of Hercules, both in biceps, shoulders and triceps. And even at my older age and a fatter body, the one remaining muscle group that is ripped is the triceps on my arms because they have been trained over years and carry me through even now. Having these great muscles developed continues to aid in my powerfully finishing my stroke and setting up for the next one. Triceps DO provide propulsion in the stroke finish/recovery portion of the stroke, so making sure they are developed, as well as other components of your body, is extremely important. Just one swimmer's point of view....and open for discussion.....
donna
Parents
Former Member
While I was in the Army, I knew many guys who could crank out 100+ pushups in 2 min (the length of our PT test), but they dropped like a rock in water.
I hope you guys didn't get offended by my position on this topic. Cross training effects is a real passion for me.
In the same time, these matters are very complex (obviously). Technical component in swimming makes these matters even more complex.
I did spend a lot of time reviewing most scientific literature on the impacts of dryland training on swim performances. Most of this literature concludes to no correlation between dryland and improvement on swim performances.
Yet. A very high number of top level coaches could not live without it.
It's a huge topic, all shades of gray.
I think that butterfly's biggest challenge is probably a technical one. Last year when I got back to swimming after several years away from it, I approached butterfly from a 'technical'/'base endurance' perspective rather than from a fitness perspective. My only swim workout (I train as a multi sport athlete) was 5x200m butterfly. No warm up, no warm down. Twice a week, for months. No freestyle, nothing. All done at very slow pace (roughly 3:45/200).
My goal, was to stop being afraid of swimming it, and allowing myself for enough training time at learning to move well in the water; especially the arm recovery while breathing every cycle thing. That clip (below) was taken last summer, during one of these sessions. The fly looks kind of ugly, but I am really happy with the results I got last weekend, at the end of a season that began with this strange regiment.
YouTube- Base endurance Butterfly - Full stroke (Side View)
At top speed during a 50m, it rather looks like this. The guy in the middle (sorry for the start, I did not work on them this year, haven't even tried 1 single track start. on the menu for next year).
YouTube- Quebec Provincial Championship - 50 BF
So as a conclusion I would say that if you want to learn efficient butterfly, you may try it at very slow pace first. Got to solve the issues one at the time. First, got to sort out the arm recovery. No need to rush fast paces to achieve this. By keeping the pace slow, you can book much more mileage and therefore more effective learning/training time.
While I was in the Army, I knew many guys who could crank out 100+ pushups in 2 min (the length of our PT test), but they dropped like a rock in water.
I hope you guys didn't get offended by my position on this topic. Cross training effects is a real passion for me.
In the same time, these matters are very complex (obviously). Technical component in swimming makes these matters even more complex.
I did spend a lot of time reviewing most scientific literature on the impacts of dryland training on swim performances. Most of this literature concludes to no correlation between dryland and improvement on swim performances.
Yet. A very high number of top level coaches could not live without it.
It's a huge topic, all shades of gray.
I think that butterfly's biggest challenge is probably a technical one. Last year when I got back to swimming after several years away from it, I approached butterfly from a 'technical'/'base endurance' perspective rather than from a fitness perspective. My only swim workout (I train as a multi sport athlete) was 5x200m butterfly. No warm up, no warm down. Twice a week, for months. No freestyle, nothing. All done at very slow pace (roughly 3:45/200).
My goal, was to stop being afraid of swimming it, and allowing myself for enough training time at learning to move well in the water; especially the arm recovery while breathing every cycle thing. That clip (below) was taken last summer, during one of these sessions. The fly looks kind of ugly, but I am really happy with the results I got last weekend, at the end of a season that began with this strange regiment.
YouTube- Base endurance Butterfly - Full stroke (Side View)
At top speed during a 50m, it rather looks like this. The guy in the middle (sorry for the start, I did not work on them this year, haven't even tried 1 single track start. on the menu for next year).
YouTube- Quebec Provincial Championship - 50 BF
So as a conclusion I would say that if you want to learn efficient butterfly, you may try it at very slow pace first. Got to solve the issues one at the time. First, got to sort out the arm recovery. No need to rush fast paces to achieve this. By keeping the pace slow, you can book much more mileage and therefore more effective learning/training time.
