Distance Swim Progress Report & Questions

Okay, well...I am kinda inexperienced in this topic as well, and actually when I first came here it was in regards to a distance swim I was planning. My swim is not for distance but time. I have a undisclosed # of hours I plan to swim straight in August 2008 as well actually. I suggest firstly that you post this question on the open water forum...they were very helpful to me...they also reccomended a real good book that I went out and bought and loved... Open Water Swimming by Dean and actually Swimming to Antarctica by Lynne Cox was really good as well. On to my knowledge...I was told that in long swims you need to hydrate/refuel every 30minutes. They suggested using the gels by I believe Hammer? They have a website where you can order bulk gels. These are light weight and you could easily swim with a few...they suggested if you swim in circut/lap...attaching it to buoys along your swim so that you can just grab one every time you reach that point and eat it while kicking on ur back...but I'm sure you could also attach it to yourself some way. (the gels are more solid so there isnt any slooshing around liquids in ur stomach) I am just starting to take more vitamins and replacement products...but I don't know which would be good for your purposes...Id actually be interested to hear what everyone else has to say on that. I take a multi-vitamin, B6 and trying to get into Whey Protein...but so far all it's effected is my gag reflex...I also take joint vitamins actually. And haven't heard anything of periodization. Wish I could train out there in Honduras though...your definatly living the swimming dream:-) Good Luck!

Thank you Morgan for your words. I will probably post this in the Open Water forum, but I knew I had seen many here under the General Discussions speak about products that aid them in training many yards. So, I posted it here first. I'll stay tuned to see if any of those who had mentioned products get to read this. Donna

Donna - Periodization is more than just the training pattern you describe, but there is no question that you should incorporate the easy/hard principle from periodization into your training. You have PLENTY of time to get ready for your swim, so adding some rest periods will not affect your ability to complete this at all. When I was training for Manhattan, I typically did 3-5 weeks "on" and 1 week "easy". Within a week, typically Mondays and Fridays were "easy", Wednesday was "moderate" and all the other days were "hard". In my yearly cycle, typically, October is off/recovery, November & December are technique and start endurance building, Jan - April are Endurance and then the May - September start as speed building and peaking and then go to racing. Note that everyone is different and I recover very fast from heavy training, so the above might be a bit much for someone who recovers less quickly. In all phases of training, I place a premium on technique and will slow up to get better technique rather than bull through and reinforce mistakes. Keep in mind that the primary principle of periodization is specificity of training at the right time. Doing sprints, for example, probably has little overall effect on your ability to cover 19 miles. I would suggest that the primary abilities needed for this, in order of aquisition, should be: technique, endurance and speed-strength. The reasoning is thusly: 1) technique is the absolute basis of efficient swimming and any training done with inefficient technique is wasteful. If you have godd technique, you can do more endurance training and if you have good endurance, you can do more speed-strength work. (More on these next.) Personally, I like the Total Immersion approach (no, I'm not a paid "shill"), but I am not going to say that other techniques don't work well too. Regardless of what you think is good technique, it is the most critical skill. 2) Endurance - This is the most general physiological skill and the one that has the highest physiological premium to it in terms of your swim. You are going to be in the water a long time and that is endurance, pure and simple. The ability to efficiently move your body through the water for a long period of time at a moderate pace is what the swim calls for and therefore is what you will eventually want to work up to doing on a regular basis. Once you get to the point where you can do 2-3 hours on a fairly consistent basis, you will probably have more than enough gas in the tank for your swim. 3) speed-strength - Although your swim is mostly raw endurance, you will need to be able to shift gears to something higher than pure endurance to fight waves, currents, etc. This is NOT speed, but rather a higher speed than can be held for a few minutes at a time (or more) and can be called upon whenever needed without incurring huge oxygen debt. Better than the typical speed work practiced in most masters programs, I'd suggest that you consider fartlek and/or timed accelerations during SOME of your longer endurance swims. Fartlek, when done correctly, is NOT, NOT, NOT a series of random sprints followed by slow swimming. Rather, it is a constant change of speeds/distances/intervals depending on how you feel. Timed accelerations are great - you go hard every x minutes during a swim for a given time or distance. For example, in a 2 hour swim, you swim at a good endurance pace and then every, say, on every 10 minute mark, do a 200 hard and then go right back to your endurance pace. (Start with say, 1/2 hour going hard every 5 minutes for 50 yards and gradually work your way up.) Those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head (and I'm supposed to be working right now), so I'll stop pontificating. Wish I was doing that swim - it sounds way cool. -LBJ

Leonard, Thank you ever so much for sharing your knowledge and in the order of priorities. I think I need to incorporate periodization as you speak of it, so I will work out a plan for each level of fitness that I achieve. The good news here is I have been told by world class coaches that I have excellent swim technique; one of those strokes that looks effortless and like gliding through the water with no break in form whatsoever regardless of speed or distance. This may be why distance comes so easy for me once the conditioning is in place. A couple of things you mentioned such as speed strength I am incorporating now because I also will be swimming a 1 mile triathlon race shortly and I have to change gears throughout that mile due to passing people. So, I do work on this a lot, swim pace, then some race pace, followed by pace again, and I have felt the improvement. I think my main concern is getting enough rest from training during the training, as well as product supplements for hydration, etc. as the mileage piles on. I know you are a well-known distance swimmer and I value your guidance. If you have any hydration-related products you find beneficial, I'd sure like those recommendations. Today was a magnificent 2 mile swim, I felt like I could have swum for 24 hours; it just felt better the further I went. Maybe the conditoning is coming into place now for that distance. Thank you for sharing your experience and clarifying further periodization. I hope I can call upon you in the future as I need to, and there is no reason why you can't join me in this epic swim; no one in the world has done this stretch of water. And there are some folks in the States that may be doing it separately from me as a relay. Donna

Two weeks ago, I timed my 2nd 2 mile swim and it is down from a 54:07 to a 51:02 so I see progress, and not just in time but how trashed I felt hours after it. Last Wednesday, I timed a 1 mile swim and it was a 27:01 so that is rather slow compared to the 2 mile, but hey, we all have off days. posted by Islandsox In addition to the wonderful information LBJ gave on Periodization training, I was wondering if part of the reason you swam slower on the one mile swim than your average time per mile during the 2 mile swim might just be attributed to the fact that you were able to build up too a better rhythm when swimming the longer distance compared to the mile swim where you didn't have enough time to establish a good rhythm? Just curious? newmastersswimmer

Jim, I have been pondering why my 1 mile swim was so far off from the splits on my 2 mile swim. I think this is it: When I did the 1 mile swim I increased the effort and intensity from the beginning and normally, I am a swimmer who always comes from behind; I never start off in a roar, I build the mile or miles as I go. And this effort, I believe, took a lot out of the remainder of that mile swim because my conditioning at that time did not match the effort of the swim. I never let up, but I think I lost a good deal of controlled power and also my breathing rate became high off the bat. I am also finding out that I swim slower if I don't let my body do what it does naturally: building the speed with the yardage, not blazing out the gate. I am not a sprinter, but spending lots of time on sprinting to get out of my comfort zone cause I'll need this tool for our triathlon in about 3 weeks as because I will have to pass people. And I do analyze all of my swims for a couple of hours after each one of them; this helps a lot. By the way, this evening I figured up my yardage for the month of February (well, 26 days of it), and it was 19 miles, the distance of my long swim, but the only problem is it took me 26 days and I'll have to do it all in one someday next year:rofl:. Yikes, donna

You will be able to conquer it Donna b/c you are tough and focused.....You are the type of swimmer who can get into a good rhythm and keep focused in the zone after that....In an 18 mile swim you can slowly build into that rhythm (as opposed to the mile swim as you pointed out)....I know you will be o.k. Donna. BTW I am also coming for a vacation too....If Paul and Rich (and others) get to come....then I'm coming too!...I hope you have enough room for all of us....LOL!!:groovy: Newmastersswimmer

When you get to where you are doing swims that are longer than 2 hours, you may want to consider using a product that contains protein for rehydrating. Or at least, you should research whether this is the right thing to do. I've read some material that suggests that it will counteract the catabolic effect of endurance training. There are many different products out there, and some folks say chocolate milk has about the same ratio of protein to carbs. At some point it comes down to what doesn't make your stomach feel upset and is readily available. I use Perpetuem by Hammer Nutrition for events over 2 hours, and the gels Morgan mentioned as needed.

Hi Leonard - remember me from the Swim for Life? Are you doing it again this year? I hope to see you there. Swimmy and I will be doing it again this year. I am also doing the 4.4 mile Bay Swim the week before. As always, your posts are so helpful! I was wondering if you have any advice on how much to train per week, for how long, before a major swim like Manhattan or what Donna is trying? Specifically, how many yards per week is sufficient to do the Manhattan swim or one of the Channel swims? I am sure my current 30,000 max per week would not be enough. I would probably need to work up to at least 40,000, I would think, but I would be curious to hear how much you do when you are training for one of the big ones. Also, have you done the English Channel or Catalina? I would think that Manhattan is similar in some ways in terms of the distance, but very different in terms of the environment. Any insights you care to share? Thanks so much. I hope I get to see you at the Swim for Life this year. Take care, Diana

Donna, I know swimming in the ocean can be tricky with the currents and all, but I am vary curious about how you track you distance taking the currents into account?