There is nothing that wrecks a good swimming related thread faster than getting into a discussion about message board etiquette. So here is a thread that people can use discuss topics related to what should and should not be posted on the message boards while allowing the other threads to stay on topic.
It seems to me that there is a spectrum of opinion on off-topic posting. On one end of the spectrum people think that threads are a mechanism specifically designed to allow people to carry on discussions on different topics and that we would all be well served if changes in topic were just done in new threads. On the other end of the spectrum people think that people should be able to post anything they want anywhere they want and that any suggestion to the contrary is censorship, a personal attack, or simply control freakish.
Pretty much everyone falls somewhere between these two extremes. Very few people object to a humorous quip inserted here and there in an otherwise serious discussion. Very few people would actually advocate that people be able to liberally sprinkle potentially offensive posts randomly through all the threads.
Have you ever been at a party where someone has decided that this is the right time and place to have a big argument or screaming match with someone? Has it ever contributed to the general enjoyment of the rest of the people there?
I would argue that posts that are essentially expressions of anger and/or are essentially personal attacks have no place on the board. They don't contribute anything positive and generally turn off 99% of the people reading the boards. Even if it seems that someone else has attacked you, does it really help anything to post an angry response?
I personally don't see the problem with starting a new thread when one wants to make an off-topic comment, a little cut and paste and/or a link makes it easy enough to carry the context into the new thread. Why is it essential to be able to carry on an unrelated discussion in a thread where some people are trying to carry on a discussion on a particular topic?
Former Member
Puffball.
If only more people like Cruise could clog up the forums.
he hasn't pointed or accused or name called, but has gotten some pointed replies back. Something which many of us think is wrong; Rich
Well said Rich.
I would "point" out that none of the allegedly "pointed" replies to Lindsay were in the nature of attacks or insults. They were perfectly civil in tone. And should be entirely distinguished from a reportable blazenly insulting or attack post. Certain people just didn't want to be told by another forum member what to do and where to post. Understandable. Lindsay says he didn't try to do that and Lindsay is always very civil. He is certainly entitled to his personal opinion, just as we all are. And he said it very well. So we move on. Almost lunch time.
O.k. I want to say one ot two things here since the thread topic has been established by lindsay. First of all I think it was a good idea to start this thread....Even though I do not always see eye to eye with Lindsay, I think he has as much right to his opinions as anyone else. I don't think it will ever be possible to put clearly defined parameters on exactly how we are to post our comments in a fashion that stays on topic enough and avoids the possiblility of offending everyone all of the time. My impression of the postings recently made by the administrators is that we need to find a kind of "middle ground" that we can all live with (I could be wrong though??)....Something in between the extreme ends of the spectrum on posting etiquette. I (and possibly) others here have a viewpoint that is perhaps a little too risque for some...and maybe a little too loosey goosey in regards to keeping postings on topic....One thing I will try to do from now on (but I can't gaurantee that I will always behave all of the time) is to make a conscious effort to refrain from comments that may have to much sexual innuendo in them...or comments that stray too far from the main topic. I have found a few ways to control my guttermind sense of humour already by resisting the temptation to post "boderline risque" comments publicly and simply PM them to some of my fellow guttermind friends instead (and you can guess who they are...LOL!!). I really like posting # 111 on the swim camp thread...b/c Barb sums up my feelings in that posting far better than I ever could.....one of the points that she makes (and others here have made very well too) is that we must stop the insults! Jim Myjastek (SP??) made it clear when he closed the topics thread that we are to resist posting anything publicly that could be considered insulting to a fellow poster....We are to either use the PM option or report our dissatisfaction to the moderators in that case. There is a big difference between launching puffballs at eachother in jest and launching lard balls (as Peter puts it). I think this is the most important message here (but what do I know right?). Nobody likes a board bully. As long as we stick to Jim Myjastek's protocol and make a reasonable attempt to reach a middle ground with respect to message board etiquette (especially in regards to trying to stay more on topic and cutting out some of the sexual innuendo that may be consrued as "boderline too risque"), I think we can learn to all live comfortably enough with one another here. I am glad Lindsay started this thread though because we needed a way to communicate our feelings with one another on the subject in a more civil manner....and find a way to keep the moderators happy as well. Well thats it for my endless hyper-delusional pontificating (for now anyway...LOL!!).
Newmastersswimmer
I've been very hesitant to wade into this discussion but as a long-time forum user (over 5 years), I felt a need to weigh in. First of all I'd like to say that I've had no problem with any inappropriate topics. Born and raised in urban NJ, it takes alot to offend me. I also feel like I've gotten to know alot of you through some of the non-swimming discussions that have taken place. I've made a point of seeking out some posters at swim meets such as Skip Thompson and even the infamous Ion long before his postings went over the top. I had hoped to meet tjburk and She-Man at the Auburn meet a few weekends ago but a month of prolonged illness prevented me from attending.
But I must say that I've noticed a marked decline in the overall quality of postings in the past several months. With the exception of Ande's outstanding threads, there are just not alot of good things happening on the forum on both a swimming and non-swimming level.
I think one of the problems may be that frequent posters don't understand that the forum has a much wider audience than they imagine. When I entered the forum just now, there were 116 viewers. Of the 116, only 17 were members of the forum. The remaining 99 were guests. These are viewers that are unable to post. Additionally if you look at our member directory, the vast majority of members rarely, if ever, post. I would be one of the members that fall into that category. So while we have about a dozen posters who chat back and forth with one another, there are a multitude of us who have no interest in the chatter.
That doesn't mean we have to be all swimming all the time. The response to Coach T.'s first masters meet is an example of the forum working at its best. As were the answers to Ensignada's questions about the swim meet. Slight diversion, no big deal. A bit of humor, no problem. But the silly banter regarding who's eating what for lunch, what kind of wine is chilling in the fridge, etc. that corrupted the swim camp thread was at the bottom of the barrel as far as threads go.
Have you noticed that alot of our best posters have disappeared? Mr. Swim Encyclopedia, Skip Thompson, is nowhere to be found. How about Terry Laughlin? Or Gull with his good medical advice? There may be other reasons why we haven't heard from them but could it be the quality of the recent postings?
So in addition to the obvious suggestions to improve the threads that have already been made, may I suggest that you try to keep the majority of viewers in mind. Not just the small handful that post back and forth. There are much better venues for that such as PMs or a NSR thread.
I also think it is great that there are light-hearted get-to-know-one-another threads. I also enjoy the occasional witty comment in the other threads. I would never suggest that we get rid of either.
But I must say that I've noticed a marked decline in the overall quality of postings in the past several months. With the exception of Ande's outstanding threads, there are just not alot of good things happening on the forum on both a swimming and non-swimming level.
Have you noticed that alot of our best posters have disappeared? Mr. Swim Encyclopedia, Skip Thompson, is nowhere to be found. How about Terry Laughlin? Or Gull with his good medical advice? There may be other reasons why we haven't heard from them but could it be the quality of the recent postings?
I'm sorry you feel there's been such a marked decline overall. I see a lot more joking. I think some of the new posters are beginning swimmers and, as Ensignada said elsewhere, no one might know they are here if they didn't post a joke or a comforting comment or something else. They might not be able to post on a highly technical level right this minute. I'm sure they will quickly step up their SR posting. When I first joined, I asked a lot of questions and I feel like I can contribute a little more substantively now with more swimming experience. But I am not humorless. Although this whole discussion has made me feel that way.
Frankly, I spent quite a lot of time commenting on blainesapprentices' situation at college lately, giving comments on the "learn to fly" threads, discussing SR vs. SPL, sprinting, referring new posters to shoulder and other threads, commenting on SDK-ing and monofins and whatnot. I think if you wanted more SR posts, you could write some yourself? I also don't know if the rest of us are just writing for guests or infrequent posters? I didn't think that was my only audience. Usually I'm responding to people here posting.
As to Terry Laughlin, I am partly to blame for his apparent departure, and for that I am sorry. We had a terrible disagreement that spread over several threads regarding shoulders. He is on a self-professed "crusade" regarding shoulders and believes that virtually all shoulder injuries are due to technique flaws. I took him on squarely on that issue (even Gull agreed with me) because I believed that shoulder injuries could be caused by anatomy or overuse or other reasons. Neither of us would back down. I think perhaps he might have been used to be being deferred to, and I wasn't deferential. It's not really my nature, although I am happy to be respectful. Terry also made it clear that he prefers the TI discussion forum and wanted to spend time there. As to Gull, I do wish he'd come back, as does everyone.
As for the new avatars and signature, I think those have added a very funny and new dimension to the forum. Surely those could be ignored if you didn't want to read them? And I don't see what's wrong with poetry either as that thread is well known. Maybe there's just the one objector to that. As for frequent posting, I've heard that maligned as well, but I don't see that. As far as I could tell, there wasn't a post limit or a words per post requirement. Some are long and some are short.
As a wise person once told me, if life is always a bowlful of cherries, you could end up with just pits.
Karlene,
Thanks for your input...but Frank Thompson still posts here all of the time?...He made a posting today or yesterday in fact.....he seems to be posting at the same rate he always posts....LBJ has been posting a bit less....but he is still posting from time to time and still sharing his unique sense of humour with us in every posting. Gull left because he caused a fight and got mad and left. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I agree more with new posters ensignia and wren (and a few other brand new posters as well such as VenusEnvy and Caped Crusade, poolraat ...etc...) and that is that the vast majority of the new posters really enjoy the vast majority of the banter around here....Did you read what ensignia and wren had to say? I think everyone has a right to express thier opinions (such as yourself) but I have to say that I do not really share your opinion when you say there has been very little posting here of any quality?? We all want to attract more members to USMS as the administrators have pointed out as well....but many of the new posters said they were encouraged to join USMS because of the banter that you have claimed to have such low quality....I guess it is a matter of taste? I personally really enjoy most of the banter around here....the only thing I don't like is the occaissional fighting and insulting that goes on....I love all the lighthearted banter though! I hope you stay and join in our discussions more?
Newmastersswimmer
Wren,
Thank-you for posting that! Its great to hear from a new member's perspective what you enjoy about the discussion board. I'm very happy it has had a positive influence on you joining USMS.
Hi Nicky! Welcome. Terry is THE TERRY of TI or Total Immersion swimming. It is quite the hot topic on this board. Many think it is a bunch of hoey. A few believe in it. I for one do not think swimming like a fish, when you lack gills and fins (no Fort, not those kind) is the smartest thing, also they swim low in the water.
Most of us are waiting for a true elite swimmer to swim the TI way and start breaking records and making international teams ...
Terry used to post here and I am unsure if we chased him, being the sweet, kind, inquiring and thoughtful people we are OR if he is on vacation. Fort mentioned he might be on a world tour ...
