Distance per Stroke/Strokes per Lap

So after all the endless discussions on this topic....and the challenge in trying to "coach" in writing I actually found myself helping out a local pro triathlete last week with just this thing. As is the case on this forum and other times I've attempted to explain; catch, rotation, lengthening of stroke, maintaining stroke while accelerating, etc. I found again that some folks have a "natural" sense of feel for this stuff....its VERY hard to coach feel. So.....I spent yesterday breaking down my stroke wit assistance from Jane Scott (Boulder Coach) and trying to better explain what it is I do unconsciously that others have to think about...some observations: - In a series of 25's (all from a push) I tasked myself with keeping 11 strokes per lap and to descend each 25 till I added a stroke.....my goal to see what changed. - First observation....I can literally slip my hand/forearm/arm thru the water without feeling any sense of "pressure" and take 11 strokes as slow as 25 seconds.....I can accelerate and descend down to 12+ keeping the same 11 strokes....faster than that my kick "kicks in" and I add another stroke and get to the low 11 range. - What was different? First thing I noticed is that although it seems my hand track stayed the same on each 25 there was an ever increasing sense of "pressure" I could feel as I got faster. I would equate the sensation change as dramatic as moving my hand thru air on the easiest 25 to literally feeling the sensation I would feel pushing on the wall to climb out of the pool. - So what happened? First I was able to discern a "tensioning" of my arm...but further examining this with Janes help it became apparent that this "coiling like a spring" as she described it was coming from my core....very interesting to really focus on this and realize how much that changed everything.....from there it extended to my catch....and ultimately the entire stroke movement thru the water. - What next? We asked a few other swimmers to work on this as well and t change their focus to their core and it was amazing that all of them said the same thing....they could not feel anything in that area...when we asked to try and tense it resulted in other parts of the stroke falling apart... - Thoughts for now; I really do think that to change these things takes an incredible amount of breaking down the stroke via drill work as has been discussed over and over here...the difference is really taking the time to think specifically how these drills translate to actually swimming...so many people I see do drills without a real sense of their purpose. I think the key drills for me at this stage continue to be variations of sculling, the "arrow" drill shown on a link in an earlier thread that U of A uses and head of swimming (tarzan). So....my coffee has run out and I have bloviated enough for now....very interesting for me however!
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Thanks for this good post Paul. I read somewhere that this type of workout is one of Popov's favourites. I will try it out and see what will happen. One of the coaches in the pool taped my stroke and I clearly see that my catch is not so bad, but I bend my hand inwards at the middle of the push and set the water free. For 5 -6 weeks I am working hard to complete my strokes properly. The pools I use are SCM and LCM. I will do the exercise in SCM with a constant stroke rate of 15 per length. Very good idea, thanks again.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Great post, Paul. Thanks. I know a lot of drills, but what the heck are "arrow" and "tarzan?" Hi Fortress, Tarzan is the freestyle with very fast strokes head out all the way (like water polo guys driving a ball). I do not know arrow drill either.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I think I understand what you're talking about. I think it takes lots of time in the water to develop the feel you're talking about. I grew up swimming and I think I understand what you're saying.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Paul, yes I know Murat Özüak, because he was one of the best swimmers of Turkey. He used to swim in Galatasaray team. I do not know what he does now, but his father and brother are the coaches in Galatasaray. I hope you can find him and get in contact. I did the set you described today w/o a coach and could not feel what you felt (maybe a coach is needed). But it was beneficial for me to focus both on hard kicking and far-reaching&completing my stroke.
  • Paul, You mention that when you bring your time down and your "kick kicks in", you end up adding a stroke to your stroke count. At least that is what I think you are saying. I tried some easy lengths and my stroke count was 18. When I cranked up my kick to maximum impulse, my stroke count came down to 16. This sounds crazy but I'm thinking that my lighter kick cadence is actually a bit faster than my maximum kick cadence for power. During more relaxed swimming, not only is the drive portion of the kick reduced, but it lends itself to a faster stroke cadence and also there is more slipping. When I crank up my kick, I am bound to a certain cadence and the strokes feel long and strong. the other thing I notice alot is that everything feels right in the world when at wide open throttle. I never seem to have the right balance when just grinding slow laps. I need to study this more, it was just my initital impression today. I've just started to pay attention to SPL.
  • Check out the video of the 100 free at the Amercian Short Course champs where Crocker uncorked a 41.6 100 free unrested (and with a beard)....Brunelli on one side, Lezak on the other....a great way to see what the combination of power, SDK, DPS & SPL looks like! www.youtube.com/watch
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Check out the video of the 100 free at the Amercian Short Course champs where Crocker uncorked a 41.6 100 free unrested (and with a beard)....Brunelli on one side, Lezak on the other....a great way to see what the combination of power, SDK, DPS & SPL looks like! www.youtube.com/watch I think I counted about 37 strokes for the entire 100. Amazing, his breakouts and underwater is so head and shoulders above everyone in the world it isn't even funny.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I think I counted about 37 strokes for the entire 100. Amazing, his breakouts and underwater is so head and shoulders above everyone in the world it isn't even funny. posted by Sam Perry Hey Sam! Great to hear from you again. I hope all is well these days. Newmastersswimmer
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    This sounds crazy but I'm thinking that my lighter kick cadence is actually a bit faster than my maximum kick cadence for power. Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are implying slower speed kick by "lighter cadence". So...slower kick=more power. This makes sense to me. My most powerful kick is a two beat (not my fastest though I wish it were). A faster kick tends to reduce the hip rotationfor me a bit. I have been trying to increase the speed of my two beat, but it is still far from where I am comfortable racing with.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    www.youtube.com/watch check out this 2 beat kick on manadou