So we had a dual college meet yesterday, against a team we should have beaten (we did not). I got stuck swimming the 50 and the 100free, after having been told the day before I would be swimming the 200im and the 100fly, which I was excited about. So from the very beginning I was a little bummed, because I really wanted the chance to swim something different, but alas and alack...that is not for me.
So I anchored the 200medley relay and pulled us ahead for a win...okay cool.
I swam the 50 free and got 1st but did a pretty cruddy time which was
disappointing (27.1)
Then I had the 100 freestyle. I got up on my block and Idk if any of you have experienced this, but when the block is not square to the pool...like its a little crooked? But this block was, and I had noticed it when I was taking my mark on the 50 free, so now I was more tuned into it, and I was trying to adjust myself so that I was square to the water, even though the block was not. While I was doing this the official said take your mark, so I just moved my foot over an inch and took my mark, and then go. I swam the race, won it, did a horrific-ly bad time for me (58.5) and took my warm down lap. When I got out my coach is trying to tell me about how I have the strength I just need to get the speed, and idk my coach really was just irritating me so I said okay and walked away. I went to see my mom, and she says she thinks they're disqualifying me for a false start. So I go down to talk to my coach, who doesn't really know whats going on. Eventually he takes out the rule book and is reading over if they can do this, and he finds the rule and him and the assistant coach decide that I can not be disqualified, because it wasn't really a false start, I was moving on the blocks which should have warrented a "swimmers stand up" at which point if I had fallen in or dove in rather I would have been dq'd. By now the meet has been stopped for 10minutes while the officials are discussing this, but my coaches never approached them with their finding. During the break which was some 30minutes later, my coach goes to them and brings up the rulings and stuff, but the official says: he knows it was a bad call, but now it is after the fact and can not be revoked. So, whatever, that stinks. But what made me most angry was that later, after the meet, I asked the official about the ruling, and he said, in football, if theres a question about a ruling, the coach doesn't come over to the refs 30minutes later, they stop everything and go running over right then. Which basically, implied that if the call had been argued right from the start when it happened, it would have been overturned and we would have tied the meet. The only reason I am not super angry is because the time was horrible, so its not like I loss a really good time.
But yeah.
don't know about college, but isn't there 30 minutes in usa rules?
This is a common DQ at USA meets, false start for moving after taking your mark. Seen it many times, had my kid get deeked for it.
I went to see my mom, and she says she thinks they're disqualifying me for a false start. So I go down to talk to my coach, who doesn't really know whats going on. Eventually he takes out the rule book and is reading over if they can do this, and he finds the rule and him and the assistant coach decide that I can not be disqualified, because it wasn't really a false start, I was moving on the blocks which should have warrented a "swimmers stand up" at which point if I had fallen in or dove in rather I would have been dq'd.
Hi Morgan,
In USS/High School meets, if the starter says "stand" and you fall in or false start, it is not a dq. If he does not say "stand" and you even wiggle during the "take your mark" you are dq'd. I'm so sorry you were dq'd! That rule stinks but there is a purpose behind it. Any movement on the blocks after the starter says "Take your mark" has to be deemed a false start....even if it doesn't give you an advantage! Even if you weren't intentionally "cheating". I've had to race on blocks that were "cockeyed" to the pool. I hate that!! I know exactly what you mean and how much it can mess with your concentration....especially for a 50 free where your start is sooo important!
My hat is off to stroke and turn judges! :notworthy: Its a hard, often thankless, job with WAAAYY too much gray area. Just like everything in life, you have judges that are fair and have common sense and you have others that abuse their power. If the judge KNEW it was a bad call, shame on him for not reversing his call.:shakeshead: I was a stoke and turn judge before I became a coach. It's not an easy job whatsoever!!!! It broke my heart to DQ kids....even when they were doing something blatantly wrong! I'm very tenderhearted! The only way I could deal with it was by telling myself that the rules were there to make the competition fair and equal and that I was doing the other competitors a disservice if I let a swimmer compete with an unfair advantage.
The delay of meet call is my "favorite"! Those call always end up delayinf the meet while the judges and coaches discuss it! :shakeshead:
Any movement on the blocks after the starter says "Take your mark" has to be deemed a false start
But doesn't everyone move after "take your mark?" I mean, you actually need to take your mark :) Maybe the rule is once you're in that position you must remain motionless until the starting signal.
edir: looks like Lindsay and I had the same thought!
But doesn't everyone move after "take your mark?" I mean, you actually need to take your mark :) Maybe the rule is once you're in that position you must remain motionless until the starting signal.
edir: looks like Lindsay and I had the same thought!
I think that's how it is worded ... I know once you "take your mark" you have to remain motionless until the gun/beep/whatever ... I think Phelps did this a meet recently, the SoCal one maybe? So at least you are in good company Morgan.
Former Member
I'm sorry Morgan! That shouldn't have happened to you - much less in that manner.
I know exactly what you're talking about what with the cockeyed block.
We've got that here at the pools I swim at.
My understanding of the rule is that you need to come down and hold perfectly still after "take your mark." Many judges/ starters do try and give the benefit of the doubt to the swimmer and will often call, "stand" if they see someone fidgeting after "take your mark." However, (and I don't know NCAA rules - only sort of know the USS or Masters), some can run the race anyway and DQ for that fidget via "delay of meet."
Hopefully, a certified official can correct me on my thoughts here.
Ideally, the coaches should have known the ins and outs of the rule book and contested right then and there. I did that w/ one of my little swimmers and a change was actually made - but you need to call it to the attention of the officials within a certain timeframe. You gotta know the rule book well and be ready to take action. I never paid attention to the rules (my bad) until I was a coach and until I was affected by, should I say, extenuating circumstances as a swimmer.
Anyway, I feel your pain. I'm sorry it had to happen that way to you. BTW, I think your times were fast! But, I know it's hard if you were off from where you wanted to be. Great job anchoring your relay to victory! :applaud:
Former Member
Sorry to hear about what happened Morgan. Sounds like you and your team got robbed. I know I would have also been very upset about it if I was in your situation. Good luck with the rest of the season!
Newmastersswimmer
Former Member
One has to stay motionless after taking one's mark, but clearly you can't stay motionless while you "take your mark"! Is there a rule that you can't move your feet after "take your mark"?
I don't know about NCAA but under USMS rules the 30 minute limit only applies to judgment calls, not questions of interpretation of the rules. If the call was due to a misinterpretation of the rules one has 10 days to protest (again, for USMS).
I agree. I think it's the starter's responsibility to make sure everyone is set and motionless before they start the race.
Former Member
Well you see the problem was, was that I never stopped moving on the blocks following him saying take you mark. He started the event before I had gotten into place...we're not talking about me taking 20minutes here...not even 20seconds probably... Normally I am ready to dive in when they say take your mark-in terms of being in place and everything...this time I just needed the extra 5seconds to take my mark, but he didn't give it. It was literally take your mark...beep! lol. So, I don't think I was at fault...he should have either waited 2more seconds until I was in position to go....or said stand up and "go down and hold your position", when my coach finally did go up there, the official said he was wrong and that him disqualifying me was not the correct action, but because 30minutes had passed there was nothing left to do.:frustrated:
but like I said, I dont care. because of it, my coach lost his meet.
I'm sorry you got dq'd. You shouldn't have been. If the referee knew he had made a mistake it's his responsibility to correct it. And you should have been notified as soon as you left the water after your race not after 10 minutes of discussion among the officials. It is always emphasized in our officials meetings that "the benefit of the doubt goes to the swimmer". If they had to discuss it for 10 minutes, that means there was all kinds of doubt. Therefore the only discussion should not have been about disqualifying you, but how to deal with a similiar situation in the future.
I went to see my mom, and she says she thinks they're disqualifying me for a false start. So I go down to talk to my coach, who doesn't really know whats going on. Eventually he takes out the rule book and is reading over if they can do this, and he finds the rule and him and the assistant coach decide that I can not be disqualified, because it wasn't really a false start, I was moving on the blocks which should have warrented a "swimmers stand up" at which point if I had fallen in or dove in rather I would have been dq'd. By now the meet has been stopped for 10minutes while the officials are discussing this, but my coaches never approached them with their finding. During the break which was some 30minutes later, my coach goes to them and brings up the rulings and stuff, but the official says: he knows it was a bad call, but now it is after the fact and can not be revoked. So, whatever, that stinks. But what made me most angry was that later, after the meet, I asked the official about the ruling, and he said, in football, if theres a question about a ruling, the coach doesn't come over to the refs 30minutes later, they stop everything and go running over right then. Which basically, implied that if the call had been argued right from the start when it happened, it would have been overturned and we would have tied the meet. The only reason I am not super angry is because the time was horrible, so its not like I loss a really good time.
But yeah.
