How much endurance training?

He referenced the 400m in Track and Field as a comparison to the 100m in swimming. While the two events use identical energy systems, T&F training is radically different. They spend a much greater percentage of training time replicating the neural programs used in the race and -- after a base phase of 8 weeks or so -- use their aerobic conditioning mainly to promote restoration for the race-replicating stuff. He points out that aerobic conditioning changes little in a trained athlete beyond the first 8 weeks of stimulus in a new season. To quote Skinner: "Just training 'hard' won't cut it; training should be very rate (neural) oriented and complement the exact neural function athletes wish to achieve in competition. The athlete should be primed to train the exact neural function without having to shed any lasting fatigue from the cardiovascular loading period. Cardiovascular loading shouldn't be at a level that compromises technique and efficiency." Reading this made me take stock of how I trained -- specifically to question the sets that felt good emotionally (i.e. validating my ability to "tough out" challenging sets) and endorphinally -- but fall far short of the speeds at which I hope to race. Unquestionably I get satisfaction from descending a set of 5 x 500 on 6:45 from 6:30 to 6:20, but the motor recruitment patterns occurring at that speed aren't close enuf to the patterns needed to put together a string of three 5:45s in a 1650. Some swimmers think they can condition their way to a faster time. My thinking is more aligned with Jonty's. I will first say that I do believe that we all agree technique and hard training is the best way to achieve faster swim times. And, I don't know of any swimmers who think they can condition their way to a faster time; at least I have never met any. So maybe "some" is a handful. Serious interval training enables a swimmer to chart improvement but more importantly, it develops sense of pace and with a sharp sense of pace (a built-in speedometer so to speak), a swimmer can guage the speed they are traveling at any point in a race. Without it, you can't be sure of yourself or your strategy in tough competition. Swimming hard for 100 meters is like running fast for a quarter of a mile, and it requires an endurance that has been carefully built up over a long period of time, not 8 weeks. In training, probably the most important single factor is building endurance to sustain race day. I am worried that people may think that recovery repeat 500s = endurance. I think that higher intensity interval training 500s= endurance and/or shorter distance repeats: those 100s, 50s, 200s, etc. Like I had mentioned several threads ago, all these studies even by Champions seem to be in great disagreement with one another and I would just hate to see a new fad begin based on study after study after study which is primarily opinion even if they are being written by people in the field of biomechanics. I took a look at some of the tests, and was shocked that one of them was for 1.07 meters. Sometimes, this reminds me of the Apollo 13 Nasa mission and they had all these life-threatening problems, one after the other, and all of those scientists had answers on paper, but had not tried them. My bottom line is: no junk yardage, good technique, don't need mindful swimming, intensity interval sets, and some very long swims each week. And I truly believe based on experience, that a swimmer who pushes past the pain barrier, well it is right there that separate the great competitors. No amount of technique will save me at that point because we all already have it, but a solid endurance base built up over time, with intensity intervals in practice will give me a much better chance at being a great competitor. I believe training should be 50/50. And I believe that strength training is a must, but not necessarily ditching swim practices for other types of training. Swim training is different from running training; just stop swimming for awhile and try it; a lot of swimming aerobics is lost. It's an entirely different type of training because of the lack of gravity. Do I want to do this today at almost 60? Nope. Been there, done that. Donna

He referenced the 400m in Track and Field as a comparison to the 100m in swimming. While the two events use identical energy systems, T&F training is radically different. They spend a much greater percentage of training time replicating the neural programs used in the race and -- after a base phase of 8 weeks or so -- use their aerobic conditioning mainly to promote restoration for the race-replicating stuff. He points out that aerobic conditioning changes little in a trained athlete beyond the first 8 weeks of stimulus in a new season. To quote Skinner: "Just training 'hard' won't cut it; training should be very rate (neural) oriented and complement the exact neural function athletes wish to achieve in competition. The athlete should be primed to train the exact neural function without having to shed any lasting fatigue from the cardiovascular loading period. Cardiovascular loading shouldn't be at a level that compromises technique and efficiency." Reading this made me take stock of how I trained -- specifically to question the sets that felt good emotionally (i.e. validating my ability to "tough out" challenging sets) and endorphinally -- but fall far short of the speeds at which I hope to race. Unquestionably I get satisfaction from descending a set of 5 x 500 on 6:45 from 6:30 to 6:20, but the motor recruitment patterns occurring at that speed aren't close enuf to the patterns needed to put together a string of three 5:45s in a 1650. Some swimmers think they can condition their way to a faster time. My thinking is more aligned with Jonty's. I will first say that I do believe that we all agree technique and hard training is the best way to achieve faster swim times. And, I don't know of any swimmers who think they can condition their way to a faster time; at least I have never met any. So maybe "some" is a handful. Serious interval training enables a swimmer to chart improvement but more importantly, it develops sense of pace and with a sharp sense of pace (a built-in speedometer so to speak), a swimmer can guage the speed they are traveling at any point in a race. Without it, you can't be sure of yourself or your strategy in tough competition. Swimming hard for 100 meters is like running fast for a quarter of a mile, and it requires an endurance that has been carefully built up over a long period of time, not 8 weeks. In training, probably the most important single factor is building endurance to sustain race day. I am worried that people may think that recovery repeat 500s = endurance. I think that higher intensity interval training 500s= endurance and/or shorter distance repeats: those 100s, 50s, 200s, etc. Like I had mentioned several threads ago, all these studies even by Champions seem to be in great disagreement with one another and I would just hate to see a new fad begin based on study after study after study which is primarily opinion even if they are being written by people in the field of biomechanics. I took a look at some of the tests, and was shocked that one of them was for 1.07 meters. Sometimes, this reminds me of the Apollo 13 Nasa mission and they had all these life-threatening problems, one after the other, and all of those scientists had answers on paper, but had not tried them. My bottom line is: no junk yardage, good technique, don't need mindful swimming, intensity interval sets, and some very long swims each week. And I truly believe based on experience, that a swimmer who pushes past the pain barrier, well it is right there that separate the great competitors. No amount of technique will save me at that point because we all already have it, but a solid endurance base built up over time, with intensity intervals in practice will give me a much better chance at being a great competitor. I believe training should be 50/50. And I believe that strength training is a must, but not necessarily ditching swim practices for other types of training. Swim training is different from running training; just stop swimming for awhile and try it; a lot of swimming aerobics is lost. It's an entirely different type of training because of the lack of gravity. Do I want to do this today at almost 60? Nope. Been there, done that. Donna