Stroke Rate vs Stroke Length, which is more difficult?
Former Member
This topic may have been discussed in the past but a search gave too many hits. I am very interested by your comment and advices for the following real scenario. This is for kids but may be this could apply to masters. BTW, I am just a parent swimmer, very interested in swimming in general but unfortunately not a good enough swimmer.
Two age group swimmers (11-12 years old) coming from different swimming history have opposite swimming style:
Swimmer 1 (let's call the higher stroke rate swimmer) swims 50 meters freestyle, taking 60 strokes. Swimmer2 does it in 45 strokes, with a time 0.5 to 1 second slower.
In general, Swimmer1 beats Swimmer2 in all distances (freestyle and back). Including a 2000 meter freestyle test set, faster by about 20 seconds. In this particular 2000m, aside the time and stroke rate, Swimmer2 (slower stroke rate) did it with even splits while Swimmer1 positive splits toward the last 25% of the distance.
Q1. Assuming two swimmers have similar aerobic conditions, which one will have better margin of progression? More exactly, would it be "easier" for Swimmer1 to improve the technique or for Swimmer2 to improve the Stroke Rate?
Q2. What would you recommend to these swimmers to get better?
To these two swimmers, stroke rate seems to be the winning bet. Swimmer2 was taught with a focus on excellent technique (and indeed looks better in the water), but is confused as this skill doesn't translate into better performance.
Of course, we are talking about SL and SR relative to a context where the swimmers already know about swimming.
Thanks you in advance for your help.
Parents
Former Member
Indeed, FAR too complex for you to hope to be able to replicate it by conscious guidance (i.e. thinking about it) in the course of a stroke. But it did help me to focus on not pushing back in the last half of my stroke. Which I did by attending only to my right hand on odd lengths and only to my left on even.
In the first part of Kaizen's reply to Larry (not quoted above), he speaks of the Stanford study. I guess what can be confusing for any swimmer, newbie or more experienced, is everyone has done a study and they can justify it with their own opinions, as well as their "scientific studies" whatever those are. And then study after study contradicts other studies :eek:. If I were a physicist, then maybe I would think I had many of the answers, but on paper only. But I am just an average swimmer now who had great coaching and most of that coaching was similar but with tweaking stroke differences along the way in the search for faster swimming with less energy output.
But I will say this about my quoted section above, it teetered on putting a person down because they may or may not be experienced. Not a good morale booster especially since they are inquiring about results given their swimming abilities at the moment.
And I do not believe any topic is "inane"; we can have serious discussions which promote the re-thinking of swimming techniques and workouts, but enjoy some light-heartedness, as peers, along the way.
Oh, I do push my hand/arm past my hip (triceps here) because it completes my stroke regardless of any study. This is my stroking style, right, wrong, or questionable.
Cheers,
Donna
Indeed, FAR too complex for you to hope to be able to replicate it by conscious guidance (i.e. thinking about it) in the course of a stroke. But it did help me to focus on not pushing back in the last half of my stroke. Which I did by attending only to my right hand on odd lengths and only to my left on even.
In the first part of Kaizen's reply to Larry (not quoted above), he speaks of the Stanford study. I guess what can be confusing for any swimmer, newbie or more experienced, is everyone has done a study and they can justify it with their own opinions, as well as their "scientific studies" whatever those are. And then study after study contradicts other studies :eek:. If I were a physicist, then maybe I would think I had many of the answers, but on paper only. But I am just an average swimmer now who had great coaching and most of that coaching was similar but with tweaking stroke differences along the way in the search for faster swimming with less energy output.
But I will say this about my quoted section above, it teetered on putting a person down because they may or may not be experienced. Not a good morale booster especially since they are inquiring about results given their swimming abilities at the moment.
And I do not believe any topic is "inane"; we can have serious discussions which promote the re-thinking of swimming techniques and workouts, but enjoy some light-heartedness, as peers, along the way.
Oh, I do push my hand/arm past my hip (triceps here) because it completes my stroke regardless of any study. This is my stroking style, right, wrong, or questionable.
Cheers,
Donna
