Stroke Rate vs Stroke Length, which is more difficult?
Former Member
This topic may have been discussed in the past but a search gave too many hits. I am very interested by your comment and advices for the following real scenario. This is for kids but may be this could apply to masters. BTW, I am just a parent swimmer, very interested in swimming in general but unfortunately not a good enough swimmer.
Two age group swimmers (11-12 years old) coming from different swimming history have opposite swimming style:
Swimmer 1 (let's call the higher stroke rate swimmer) swims 50 meters freestyle, taking 60 strokes. Swimmer2 does it in 45 strokes, with a time 0.5 to 1 second slower.
In general, Swimmer1 beats Swimmer2 in all distances (freestyle and back). Including a 2000 meter freestyle test set, faster by about 20 seconds. In this particular 2000m, aside the time and stroke rate, Swimmer2 (slower stroke rate) did it with even splits while Swimmer1 positive splits toward the last 25% of the distance.
Q1. Assuming two swimmers have similar aerobic conditions, which one will have better margin of progression? More exactly, would it be "easier" for Swimmer1 to improve the technique or for Swimmer2 to improve the Stroke Rate?
Q2. What would you recommend to these swimmers to get better?
To these two swimmers, stroke rate seems to be the winning bet. Swimmer2 was taught with a focus on excellent technique (and indeed looks better in the water), but is confused as this skill doesn't translate into better performance.
Of course, we are talking about SL and SR relative to a context where the swimmers already know about swimming.
Thanks you in advance for your help.
If one wants to get a book read, it's important to choose a title that will get attention. And I think the title should sum up one's philosophy as well. In this case it seems particuarly appropriate because the conventional approach to endurance training is "More is More."
And what's wrong with writing for newbies? Indeed I expressly hope the accessible approach that I'll recommend will encourage many "newbies" to set swimming goals -- first mile, first OW race, first English Channel crossing or Manhattan circuit -- they might previously have been too intimidated to contemplate. At the same time, I hope it will inspire others to believe they can set the kind of goals I never contemplated when I was younger - breaking a national LD record or winning a World Masters OW championship.
I also hope it might result in there being more swimmers entering the 1500 and 1650 at Nationals and every LD OW event than there are medals available in every age group through 85-89 and indeed eventually 90+. When I race for a national championship in 20 or 30 years I hope to have LOTS of company to com petere with me, just as is the case in the 50 Free.
If I were to call it "More is More," I'd turn off the vast majority of those hoped-for readers.
Here's are several quotes I've collected from the TI Discussion Forum to include in the book's introduction to clarify what we mean by "Less is More."
"Less is more: it's not how far you go that matters, but how you go: the quality of what you're doing to yourself, and what you learn while doing it."
Julie Friedeberg
London England
Yoga Teacher
TI Student
"Swimming the TI way reminds me of the quest for mastery or virtuosity in the martial, fine or performing arts.
That is: having fine-tuned control of your swimming instrument in any situation, at any speed, for any purpose, it moves beyond getting fitter or faster, it's being able to apply your swimming intention at every speed and distance and SPL and in any condition. This is more worthy of pursuit than any single record or milestone.
Like the painter who can achieve a mark on the canvas with his thumb dipped in paint or the woodworker with a router on a wood board, we want to be able to swim the way we intend to swim."
Peter Scott
Vancouver BC
TI Coach in Training
No, it's great to get the newbies. Your goals are well put. I was just selfishly thinking of some of us too. Judging from where I live, I think in 20-30 years there will be lots more people to com petere with you in the OW. To me, it seems more people are interested in the Bay Bridge OW Swim than the 50 free. That event is difficult to enter it fills up so fast.
Yes, you must have a catchy title. I didn't say "More is More" though. I wouldn't buy that book. I think I said "Efficiency Is More." I might have to go look at your forum if you've got artists and woodworkers and people who can write like Cruise.
If one wants to get a book read, it's important to choose a title that will get attention. And I think the title should sum up one's philosophy as well. In this case it seems particuarly appropriate because the conventional approach to endurance training is "More is More."
And what's wrong with writing for newbies? Indeed I expressly hope the accessible approach that I'll recommend will encourage many "newbies" to set swimming goals -- first mile, first OW race, first English Channel crossing or Manhattan circuit -- they might previously have been too intimidated to contemplate. At the same time, I hope it will inspire others to believe they can set the kind of goals I never contemplated when I was younger - breaking a national LD record or winning a World Masters OW championship.
I also hope it might result in there being more swimmers entering the 1500 and 1650 at Nationals and every LD OW event than there are medals available in every age group through 85-89 and indeed eventually 90+. When I race for a national championship in 20 or 30 years I hope to have LOTS of company to com petere with me, just as is the case in the 50 Free.
If I were to call it "More is More," I'd turn off the vast majority of those hoped-for readers.
Here's are several quotes I've collected from the TI Discussion Forum to include in the book's introduction to clarify what we mean by "Less is More."
"Less is more: it's not how far you go that matters, but how you go: the quality of what you're doing to yourself, and what you learn while doing it."
Julie Friedeberg
London England
Yoga Teacher
TI Student
"Swimming the TI way reminds me of the quest for mastery or virtuosity in the martial, fine or performing arts.
That is: having fine-tuned control of your swimming instrument in any situation, at any speed, for any purpose, it moves beyond getting fitter or faster, it's being able to apply your swimming intention at every speed and distance and SPL and in any condition. This is more worthy of pursuit than any single record or milestone.
Like the painter who can achieve a mark on the canvas with his thumb dipped in paint or the woodworker with a router on a wood board, we want to be able to swim the way we intend to swim."
Peter Scott
Vancouver BC
TI Coach in Training
No, it's great to get the newbies. Your goals are well put. I was just selfishly thinking of some of us too. Judging from where I live, I think in 20-30 years there will be lots more people to com petere with you in the OW. To me, it seems more people are interested in the Bay Bridge OW Swim than the 50 free. That event is difficult to enter it fills up so fast.
Yes, you must have a catchy title. I didn't say "More is More" though. I wouldn't buy that book. I think I said "Efficiency Is More." I might have to go look at your forum if you've got artists and woodworkers and people who can write like Cruise.