Stroke Rate vs Stroke Length, which is more difficult?
Former Member
This topic may have been discussed in the past but a search gave too many hits. I am very interested by your comment and advices for the following real scenario. This is for kids but may be this could apply to masters. BTW, I am just a parent swimmer, very interested in swimming in general but unfortunately not a good enough swimmer.
Two age group swimmers (11-12 years old) coming from different swimming history have opposite swimming style:
Swimmer 1 (let's call the higher stroke rate swimmer) swims 50 meters freestyle, taking 60 strokes. Swimmer2 does it in 45 strokes, with a time 0.5 to 1 second slower.
In general, Swimmer1 beats Swimmer2 in all distances (freestyle and back). Including a 2000 meter freestyle test set, faster by about 20 seconds. In this particular 2000m, aside the time and stroke rate, Swimmer2 (slower stroke rate) did it with even splits while Swimmer1 positive splits toward the last 25% of the distance.
Q1. Assuming two swimmers have similar aerobic conditions, which one will have better margin of progression? More exactly, would it be "easier" for Swimmer1 to improve the technique or for Swimmer2 to improve the Stroke Rate?
Q2. What would you recommend to these swimmers to get better?
To these two swimmers, stroke rate seems to be the winning bet. Swimmer2 was taught with a focus on excellent technique (and indeed looks better in the water), but is confused as this skill doesn't translate into better performance.
Of course, we are talking about SL and SR relative to a context where the swimmers already know about swimming.
Thanks you in advance for your help.
Parents
Former Member
There is a thread called "Help with Sprinting" or something like that started by Dennis Tesch which discusses this topic. I don't know the exact site. I betcha that Frank Thompson does though, cuz that guy is as smart as you.
Help with sprinting strategy thread
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I think it is important to remember that efficient and high distance per stroke are not synonymous and that efficiency is a means to an end not a goal, the goal is to cover a given distance in the least amount of time. The easiest way to increase stroke length is to slow down and glide a lot, but that won't help you with sprinting. I think that a big element of stroke rate is just rhythm - you try to swim with a faster rhythm and monitor what goes wrong, and work on that (e.g. I tend to start to drop my left elbow as I get tired).
The unfortunate reality is that sprinting fast takes a lot of work and will tire you out no matter how efficient you are. People who believe that they will be able to sprint fast without effort by perfecting their technique are in for disappointment.
Allen got to the heart of the matter earlier when he said that one has to look at a specific swimmer's stroke and find what is limiting them: are they slipping? do they lack strength? do they lack endurance? is their timing off? are they relying on small muscles instead of large ones?
Distance per stroke is like the instruments in a car, if you adjust your engine or transmission or whatever you can use the instruments to see if you are getting better distance for the same gas at the same speed or better speed with the same fuel consumption or whatever. SPL and swimming golf scores, like car instruments, allow you to play around with parameters and get feedback as to whether the adjustments are useful. But you won't make a better car just by adjusting your speedometer and your speedometer won't tell you what adjustments you need to make in your car just as strokes per length won't tell you what to change in your stroke, only whether a change you are experimenting with is helping, and then only if you have held speed constant or higher.
In my limited experience I would say that you most productively increase stroke rate by decreasing the time you spend in the less propulsive phases of your stroke. In theory you can increase your stroke rate at minimal energy cost just by recovering your arm faster. You have to be careful that attempts to speed up your recovery don't throw off important aspects of your stroke such as roll.
There is a thread called "Help with Sprinting" or something like that started by Dennis Tesch which discusses this topic. I don't know the exact site. I betcha that Frank Thompson does though, cuz that guy is as smart as you.
Help with sprinting strategy thread
================
I think it is important to remember that efficient and high distance per stroke are not synonymous and that efficiency is a means to an end not a goal, the goal is to cover a given distance in the least amount of time. The easiest way to increase stroke length is to slow down and glide a lot, but that won't help you with sprinting. I think that a big element of stroke rate is just rhythm - you try to swim with a faster rhythm and monitor what goes wrong, and work on that (e.g. I tend to start to drop my left elbow as I get tired).
The unfortunate reality is that sprinting fast takes a lot of work and will tire you out no matter how efficient you are. People who believe that they will be able to sprint fast without effort by perfecting their technique are in for disappointment.
Allen got to the heart of the matter earlier when he said that one has to look at a specific swimmer's stroke and find what is limiting them: are they slipping? do they lack strength? do they lack endurance? is their timing off? are they relying on small muscles instead of large ones?
Distance per stroke is like the instruments in a car, if you adjust your engine or transmission or whatever you can use the instruments to see if you are getting better distance for the same gas at the same speed or better speed with the same fuel consumption or whatever. SPL and swimming golf scores, like car instruments, allow you to play around with parameters and get feedback as to whether the adjustments are useful. But you won't make a better car just by adjusting your speedometer and your speedometer won't tell you what adjustments you need to make in your car just as strokes per length won't tell you what to change in your stroke, only whether a change you are experimenting with is helping, and then only if you have held speed constant or higher.
In my limited experience I would say that you most productively increase stroke rate by decreasing the time you spend in the less propulsive phases of your stroke. In theory you can increase your stroke rate at minimal energy cost just by recovering your arm faster. You have to be careful that attempts to speed up your recovery don't throw off important aspects of your stroke such as roll.
