Stroke Rate vs Stroke Length, which is more difficult?
Former Member
This topic may have been discussed in the past but a search gave too many hits. I am very interested by your comment and advices for the following real scenario. This is for kids but may be this could apply to masters. BTW, I am just a parent swimmer, very interested in swimming in general but unfortunately not a good enough swimmer.
Two age group swimmers (11-12 years old) coming from different swimming history have opposite swimming style:
Swimmer 1 (let's call the higher stroke rate swimmer) swims 50 meters freestyle, taking 60 strokes. Swimmer2 does it in 45 strokes, with a time 0.5 to 1 second slower.
In general, Swimmer1 beats Swimmer2 in all distances (freestyle and back). Including a 2000 meter freestyle test set, faster by about 20 seconds. In this particular 2000m, aside the time and stroke rate, Swimmer2 (slower stroke rate) did it with even splits while Swimmer1 positive splits toward the last 25% of the distance.
Q1. Assuming two swimmers have similar aerobic conditions, which one will have better margin of progression? More exactly, would it be "easier" for Swimmer1 to improve the technique or for Swimmer2 to improve the Stroke Rate?
Q2. What would you recommend to these swimmers to get better?
To these two swimmers, stroke rate seems to be the winning bet. Swimmer2 was taught with a focus on excellent technique (and indeed looks better in the water), but is confused as this skill doesn't translate into better performance.
Of course, we are talking about SL and SR relative to a context where the swimmers already know about swimming.
Thanks you in advance for your help.
Parents
Former Member
I don't know for sure what "substitute catch-up style by kayak version" is so I cannot comment.
Hi Donna,
By "Catch-Up" I meant one hand starts pulling when the other almost about to enter the water (freestyle). This style is also sometime called "Front Quarant Swimming". With this style, the glide phase is rather emphasized.
Therefore when gliding, I don't pull, that is why this is less tiring and also why I am slow. The two kids I mentioned in the beginning of this thread all beat me in sprint!
I believe the opposite of the catch-up style is the kayak style where both arms spin continuously in opposition like a kayak paddle. So my idea is that less catch-up = less glide = more strokes.
You were right in your assumption about "windmill a little bit faster". I meant higher turnover rate. Sorry for the incorrect wording.
Thank you very much for the stats of your test. If it is hard to increase SR for an experienced swimmer like you, I wonder when I'll get any results (I swim 2, 3 times a week).
The FAST length really hurt, but I am not used to sprinting so that may be part of it. And obviously I did not shorten up my stroke on the FAST length.
This seems to confirm what I was afraid of. It's not easy to increase SR. Your fast time is 15% less than your EZ time. By maintaining the same stroke pattern (than when swimming EZ), let assume theoritically that you had increased your SR by +15% faster. The energy expenditure is actually more than +15%. Because the drag force increases by square of the speed and therefore you'll need 1.15^2 = 1.32 more energy (+32%). And this is plentiful to push your heart rate in the red zone. In reality you will probably spent more than +32% energy. Because you body is not entirely immersed so it makes waves. And wave drag is proportional to the cube of the speed.
So it is really tiring to increase the SR without changing the stroke pattern. The stroke efficiency has to be sacrificed in order to allow a higher SR. And this may mean changing a lot of habits. Even if I am willing to change my stroking habits, I have no clue on how to make this change in a gradual "learnable" way.
Or may be it could be as simple as practicing a lot of sprint and the body will figure out a way to adapt itself to the new regimen?
I don't know for sure what "substitute catch-up style by kayak version" is so I cannot comment.
Hi Donna,
By "Catch-Up" I meant one hand starts pulling when the other almost about to enter the water (freestyle). This style is also sometime called "Front Quarant Swimming". With this style, the glide phase is rather emphasized.
Therefore when gliding, I don't pull, that is why this is less tiring and also why I am slow. The two kids I mentioned in the beginning of this thread all beat me in sprint!
I believe the opposite of the catch-up style is the kayak style where both arms spin continuously in opposition like a kayak paddle. So my idea is that less catch-up = less glide = more strokes.
You were right in your assumption about "windmill a little bit faster". I meant higher turnover rate. Sorry for the incorrect wording.
Thank you very much for the stats of your test. If it is hard to increase SR for an experienced swimmer like you, I wonder when I'll get any results (I swim 2, 3 times a week).
The FAST length really hurt, but I am not used to sprinting so that may be part of it. And obviously I did not shorten up my stroke on the FAST length.
This seems to confirm what I was afraid of. It's not easy to increase SR. Your fast time is 15% less than your EZ time. By maintaining the same stroke pattern (than when swimming EZ), let assume theoritically that you had increased your SR by +15% faster. The energy expenditure is actually more than +15%. Because the drag force increases by square of the speed and therefore you'll need 1.15^2 = 1.32 more energy (+32%). And this is plentiful to push your heart rate in the red zone. In reality you will probably spent more than +32% energy. Because you body is not entirely immersed so it makes waves. And wave drag is proportional to the cube of the speed.
So it is really tiring to increase the SR without changing the stroke pattern. The stroke efficiency has to be sacrificed in order to allow a higher SR. And this may mean changing a lot of habits. Even if I am willing to change my stroking habits, I have no clue on how to make this change in a gradual "learnable" way.
Or may be it could be as simple as practicing a lot of sprint and the body will figure out a way to adapt itself to the new regimen?
