So my kick sucks, or rather I don't do much kicking so it's very inefficent. It takes me about 30 seconds to do 25 meters. I don't use fins since I don't much like them. I have a very slow two beat kick in freestyle, and on longer fly sets I'm lucky to get one kick per beat. My only strong kick is in the ***.
I'm a strong swimmer, I'm close to having a top 10 in the 200 fly, so it's not a case of the rest of my stroke being bad. I think that if I can actually get some sort of kick then I can drop my times. I do dolphin kick off the walls, and that works well for me. I've tried swimming 25s underwater kick, but that doesn't work for me, after a couple of kicks I slow down and they are inefficent.
So how can I improve my kicks? Do I need to do 1000 kick sets every so often? There are times when I try and kick during workouts, but I seem to forget after a minute or so. It seems to me that while I have stong legs, they just don't want to kick, maybe my core isn't strong enough, and my mind says, you're moving fast enough, why worry about wasting the energy kicking?
I think this is my breakthrough to the next level, I've been at my times for awhile now.
here's a thread
www.usms.org/.../showthread.php
There's more answers in swim faster faster
good luck,
ande
So my kick sucks, or rather I don't do much kicking so it's very inefficent. It takes me about 30 seconds to do 25 meters. I don't use fins since I don't much like them. I have a very slow two beat kick in freestyle, and on longer fly sets I'm lucky to get one kick per beat. My only strong kick is in the ***.
I'm a strong swimmer, I'm close to having a top 10 in the 200 fly, so it's not a case of the rest of my stroke being bad. I think that if I can actually get some sort of kick then I can drop my times. I do dolphin kick off the walls, and that works well for me. I've tried swimming 25s underwater kick, but that doesn't work for me, after a couple of kicks I slow down and they are inefficent.
So how can I improve my kicks? Do I need to do 1000 kick sets every so often? There are times when I try and kick during workouts, but I seem to forget after a minute or so. It seems to me that while I have stong legs, they just don't want to kick, maybe my core isn't strong enough, and my mind says, you're moving fast enough, why worry about wasting the energy kicking?
I think this is my breakthrough to the next level, I've been at my times for awhile now.
Yikes, Greg, that drill sounds like something I would need to taper for :rofl:.
Ed Head, I'm not sure that longer kick sets would be the answer. I would have a tendency to make sure your kick was technically sound for your stroke and to make sure (on freestyle) that only the heels are breaking the surface. My freestyle kick is rather worthless when isolated, but I also have never spent much time on it because I was a backstroker. And I did do piles of backstroking kick, sometimes for an hour at a time.
But one thing I did do was to do intensity kick training but making sure I had good form all through the kick. One length ez, one length fast and repeat. And, I also did that drill you were talking about, we call it Under/Over; one length doing dolphin underwater but surfacing when you need air, and the next length backstroke kicking as that is the recovery length. And this of course was an anaerobic drill thus taxing that energy system, as well as working those legs under those conditions.
And, when I was competing, I did spend much time in the weight room working on my quads, as well as biking hills. Strength is necessary.
Donna
Try doing verticle kicking with a medicine ball. That will really test how strong your kick is, cause if its not you will be sinking. I use a 20lb ball and do drills of 15 seconds of kicking, 15 sec rest. Do that for 10 minutes and your thighs will be sure to be burning.
greg
This harkens back to the days of waterpolo training. Egg beater kick with dumbells overhead.
...Ed have you tried sitting on your ankles for better flexibility?
This harkens back to the days of waterpolo training. Egg beater kick with dumbells overhead.
...Ed have you tried sitting on your ankles for better flexibility?
I can't do the egg beater, it kills my knees.
As for flexibility, I think I'm as flexable as one can get. I can point my toes straight, and I can stand on the outside of my feet, so my soles are pointing together.
I just think I don't kick much and my brain doesn't say kick. When we do pull sets I don't use a bouy as my legs do not sink. I know on my 100 fly last weekend I was telling myself to kick, but it just wasn't working. I also find myself in the middle of sets not really kicking and I know I need to kick more to go faster. I think my fly will improve as well.
You don't need to work on your eggg beater...unless you're doing the butterfrog.
That said...the fly kick is coming from your hips. If one cracks a whip...the last thing to snap is the tip (or the feet). Many flyers on our age group team pound and pound the water with their feet. I say to them that it comes from the hips.
As fara as free...the kick sets up the arm tempo. It really doesn't add propulsion...unless you have freakishly large feet. If you're a distance swimmer...a two beat kick is just fine.
Sprinters need to pick it up a bit to something more like 6 or 8 beats per cycle. I liken the feet to a drum beat in the galleys on a oar driven ship. :) When the kicking tempo quickens...so does everything else. (Too many Charlton Heston movies.)
Try doing verticle kicking with a medicine ball. That will really test how strong your kick is, cause if its not you will be sinking. I use a 20lb ball and do drills of 15 seconds of kicking, 15 sec rest. Do that for 10 minutes and your thighs will be sure to be burning.
greg
And, when I was competing, I did spend much time in the weight room working on my quads, as well as biking hills. Strength is necessary.
Be safe on that bike! :dedhorse:
My kick was mediocre until my first broken wrist due to bicycle accident. Trust me, 6 weeks of Kick-only workouts will make you an awesome kicker, but thats not the way you want it to happen.
If you have access to a monofin and a long, deep pool, I recommend working on that. You really get a good feel for undulating body position with fly, but it also shows you that you dont need a massive kick for power, that a smaller but still forceful one will work just fine.
And, when I was competing, I did spend much time in the weight room working on my quads, as well as biking hills. Strength is necessary.
We had an assistant coach from U of U here for a clinic a few years ago and she told us they do a lot of spinning to help improve leg strength for the kick. Any thoughts on this?
If you have access to a monofin and a long, deep pool, I recommend working on that. You really get a good feel for undulating body position with fly, but it also shows you that you dont need a massive kick for power, that a smaller but still forceful one will work just fine.
I've never tried one of these monofins. My daughter just put one on her xmas list. Did you like it?
Poolraat: Allen Stark says he does a lot of cycling to build leg strength for breaststroke and to save his knees.
I am also an advocate of using fins; I prefer red Zoomers myself, but occasionally use a fin with holes in them. Made by VOLORACE and they are specific to swimmers. They force your ankles to bend more thus stretching the tendons/muscles. And they are long so I do use them for underwater dolphin kick drills and backstroke kicking. But I'd think breaststrokers would have a terrible time with them. :rofl:
Zoomers have improved my leg strength by isolating my kick and they teach my brain and body proper body position when moving quickly. When the fins come off, of course it's weird, but I know what my body position should be and then I strive for that.
Donna
