seeking some online stuff about swimming physics?

Here is another site www.fi.edu/.../swimming-01.html

So what does Maglischo say sculling helps with if not lift? Is it distance per stroke like Solar says?

I'll have to look again - but I think Maglischo now thinks sculling has no value and contributes almost nothing to propulsion. I hope Solar Energy is reading this. Maybe Maglischo agrees that sculling is a myth perpetrated upon reluctant scullers.:shakeshead:

I am bringing forward all different items that refer to physics and some that don't, that I have found. I do not have to believe them nor do you. But any one can make their own conclusion. I think a lot of the stuff I read is bunk but should be presented. Lift is caused by all the actions of force applied plus the shape of the body. If you do not have force in one direction you do not have lift. I am still trying to figure out if drag causes the lift.

It was true in Maglischo's 2nd edition (in fact most of this book was based on this assumption), and became false in the third's edition :shakeshead: Maglischo fully acknowledged in the current (third) edition that he believes sculling does not generate lift. I think it is honorable of him to say his earlier theory was wrong. I think it's important too to note that his earlier position on sculling was based on research and tests by others. Others thought so too. Much of the sculling theory was based on Bernoulli's principle - normally applied to airplanes and wing lift. It has not held up as valid for swimmers.

I'll have to look again - but I think Maglischo now thinks sculling has no value and contributes almost nothing to propulsion. His book by the way is fantastic if a bit dry to read through. So many good sections in the book. Really helped me understand lactate threshold, energy pathways, etc. It would be even better if it came with DVDs instead of just the photos and drawings.

Sometimes people don't take simple kinematics into account. For example, raise your arm straight above your head, now try to move your elbow in a straight line down to your hip. Of course simply geometry makes this impossible, your elbow will always follow an arc (relative to your body). Sometimes people make movements not because they are propulsive but because they position a body part for a propulsive movement or because of kinematic constraints as above. The fact that people can propel themselves with sculling indicates that propulsion can be generated (by angle of attack not airplane wing type foil effects) but the max speed that people can propel themselves by sculling does raise some interesting questions about its usefulness at race speeds. On the otherhand, so many good swimmers talk about "feel for the water" in relation to swimming that one has to wonder if there is something to it, however ambiguous that term may seem.

Here is another site www.fi.edu/.../swimming-01.html Unfortunately the treatment of sculling is just plain wrong. Hands do not produce lift the way that airplane wings do, they produce forward force by their angle to the water.

Unfortunately the treatment of sculling is just plain wrong. Hands do not produce lift the way that airplane wings do, they produce forward force by their angle to the water. It was true in Maglischo's 2nd edition (in fact most of this book was based on this assumption), and became false in the third's edition :shakeshead:

Now that is a great article. Off this subject but germain to swimming science, there is a good overview of energy metabolism in the new issue of Swimming World.