You are the Rules Dictator

Not many around now that did not learn the dolpin kick.

Allen: It sounded like cheating to me too. But it's a big mucky muck coach who is trying to stretch the rule and "anticipate" the next rule change, apparently. Just passing on some hot tub chat. I would agree to ditch the semi-finals too. The real contenders generally will make the finals even if they have to suffer through the semi-finals, but why should they have to suffer?

i agree! i can't believe it's a legal move now. I guess I'll be the odd man out and say I love the new rule. It's the only part of breastroke I can actually do these days.

Clear me up on this issue please. I was on the B team for the last two years of high school (1967-68) in the U.S. That was and is my total "competitive" swimming until about two years ago when I began to swim with a master's group and do regular training. My stroke back in 67-68 was the 200 I.M. and the 100 butterfly. I would do the first 75 yards of the fly using a regular single dolphin kick and then on the turn I would switch to the frog kick for the last 25 yards.That was legal back then. It seems that masters are not only allowed the frog kick, but they can mix a dolphin per cycle and can switch back and forth without having to follow through the whole pool. As I only do the occasional 50 fly or the 100 I.M. I have been using the dolphin kick, the modern two kick. But I have shown my group how to do a butterfrog. One older guy who will not do a dolphin kick has actually done some laps using the frog kick. For you better trained or genetically better (?)athletes who never used the frog: the switch to the frog from the dolphin is not a decision based on anything but the complete burn out of your energy. The frog kick will let you recover the arms cycle and continue on to the end with dignity albeit slower. The question up there was if anyone remembered these high school rules where you could use the frog kick in the fly if you did it through a complete lap. thanks, billy fanstone.

Ban breaststroke kick in butterfly races for masters. Terry, man, that just ain't butterfly. (I commend you, however, for undertaking the Terrible 3. It sounds very painful.) i agree! i can't believe it's a legal move now.

Actually Lindsay FINA only outlawed the breaststroke kick in the butterfly for non-masters swimming a couple of years ago (4-6 years.) Ever since the split of the butterfly from the breaststroke, the FINA rules simply stated that you had to kick symetrically and that was it. So the breaststroke kick met the requirement. When they changed it, they caused a big problem for masters because the FINA masters rules are listed as exceptions and additions to the "kids" rules and the changes were made when there was no mechanism to change the Masters rules. We therefore did not have an exception and our rules automatically changed. The FINA "rules dictator" granted an exception until the next FINA Masters congress was held so the disruption was held to a minimum. So in this context, we should revisit your statement and go back to the rules as they were most recently in place - oops they look like Masters rules today:) . Leo Leo: Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know that the rules up until 6 years ago allowed swimmers to use the breaststroke kick in Fly events. I remember back in the 1960' s you saw it but not much. By the time I was in High School and competed in AAU meets I never saw anyone use it no matter what distance or what age. Of course all instuction at that time in learning the Fly was to use the dolphin kick. So it took FINA up until the end of the century to change the rules for everyone except masters. With that being said then maybe they won't ever try to change the masters rules to be consistent with there FINA swimming rules.

Before I hurt my shoulder I could swim long distance fly(1000-1650) with dolphin kick no problem,the secret was I swam it REALLY SLOW. My fly can beat my butterfrog up to about 75 yd now,my butterfrog can't beat my breaststroke,and if I could find a way to swim breaststroke on my back I'd have a good IM.(I've tried double arm pull,whip kick on my back but it is slower than butterfrog,my best success so far is to swim underwater breaststroke on my back for as close to the 15M as my lungs allow and then fake it from there.)

George: You're giving us whimpy sprinters a bad name. I want to watch Allen's IM with him doing breaststroke kick and butterfrog and all that stuff. How interesting! Peter: Now be honest, do the words "graceful" and "butterfrog" really sound like they belong together?

Peter If they stop you using that little froggy kick you will not be swimming 200s you will have to enter 25s and 5Os.

Lindsay: using the words 'pure' and 'butterfly' in the same statement is just plain bad taste. George: 25's & 50's looking pretty good with as little training time as I've had this month (maybe I'll starting paying attention to the GoodSmith's training tips. I don't understand why butterfliers get so hysterical about us (the few, the brave) who pollute their precious little stroke with a suggestion of grace...