Why is it that Masters level swimmers who participate in USS sanctioned meets under a separate USS registration can't have their times automatically qualify for USMS rankings and USMS National records? What is the reason for this separation? The rules with USMS and USS seem parallel enough to allow USS swims to qualify under USMS ranking and records. Do we care if elite older swimmers in their 30's (say Gary Hall Jr.) effectively end up owning the USMS national record by default? Is USMS afraid of merging to closely with USS? Why wouldn't USMS want to recognize the true best performance by and old man/women in the pool regardless of whether their card said USS or USMS on it?
John Smith
RacerX:
It sound like you were in agreement with my initial hesitation about not permitting USMS records to be broken by a USS non-USMS Olympian who never swims in masters meets. Although I subsequently said that I understood Paul Smith's argument.
I still think this issue deserves more input from folks that are not Top 10 in the world. I was just wondering about what they might think of purely USS elite swimmers crashing their party or whether they, like FINA, might think it's not in the spirit of masters swimming. Or maybe they don't care since they are already facing ex-Olympians.
I agree Gary Hall's record should count. I clearly said that before. He is a masters swimmer too. I hope he does all the darn paperwork to get credit. My kids and I were at Worlds and we were saddened by his absence. I think they were more interested in watching him race than their own creaky Mom. And I like the 50 free too. It is my only freestyle event at the moment. :)
Leslie:
If Gary would have filled out the USMS Record Applications within 60 days of the swim at the Pan Pacs and went thru the applicable procedures stated on the application he would have gotten a USMS Record but not a FINA World Record because again this was not a Masters sanction meet and FINA will only accept swims from masters competitions for FINA World Records. If he would have swam at Stanford at Worlds he would have gotten the World Record because it was a Sanctioned Masters meet. Until this is changed, this will be the FINA policy.
Its the swimmers responsibility in non masters meets to make sure the requirements are taken care of. These requirements include getting a copy of the heat sheet, backup timing tape, and signitures of the officials as proof of the swim. Getting a copy of the birth certificate as proof of age if this has not been done. In the last 3 years USMS has made a rule that you must have proof of pool measurement for any USMS record to count. If it was a bulkhead pool, you as a swimmer would have to take measurements of the pool before and after the sessions of the swim. How many people like Gary Hall Jr. are going to take that responsibilty to do this in a non masters meet, especially one of the big TV international meets of the year? Probably none of them because its not one of there big priorities in life. This last requirement is the one where swimmers just aren't going to deal with because it could be a hassle getting a pool measurement and its not the host meets responsibilty to do this. All of the other stuff is pretty straight forward.
There have been many USMS registered masters swimmers thru the years that have gone to USA meets of all types and have broken USMS records and they have been published everywhere. But because the paperwork was not done, those swims go basically ignored in USMS.
RacerX:
It sound like you were in agreement with my initial hesitation about not permitting USMS records to be broken by a USS non-USMS Olympian who never swims in masters meets. Although I subsequently said that I understood Paul Smith's argument.
I still think this issue deserves more input from folks that are not Top 10 in the world. I was just wondering about what they might think of purely USS elite swimmers crashing their party or whether they, like FINA, might think it's not in the spirit of masters swimming. Or maybe they don't care since they are already facing ex-Olympians.
I agree Gary Hall's record should count. I clearly said that before. He is a masters swimmer too. I hope he does all the darn paperwork to get credit. My kids and I were at Worlds and we were saddened by his absence. I think they were more interested in watching him race than their own creaky Mom. And I like the 50 free too. It is my only freestyle event at the moment. :)
Leslie:
If Gary would have filled out the USMS Record Applications within 60 days of the swim at the Pan Pacs and went thru the applicable procedures stated on the application he would have gotten a USMS Record but not a FINA World Record because again this was not a Masters sanction meet and FINA will only accept swims from masters competitions for FINA World Records. If he would have swam at Stanford at Worlds he would have gotten the World Record because it was a Sanctioned Masters meet. Until this is changed, this will be the FINA policy.
Its the swimmers responsibility in non masters meets to make sure the requirements are taken care of. These requirements include getting a copy of the heat sheet, backup timing tape, and signitures of the officials as proof of the swim. Getting a copy of the birth certificate as proof of age if this has not been done. In the last 3 years USMS has made a rule that you must have proof of pool measurement for any USMS record to count. If it was a bulkhead pool, you as a swimmer would have to take measurements of the pool before and after the sessions of the swim. How many people like Gary Hall Jr. are going to take that responsibilty to do this in a non masters meet, especially one of the big TV international meets of the year? Probably none of them because its not one of there big priorities in life. This last requirement is the one where swimmers just aren't going to deal with because it could be a hassle getting a pool measurement and its not the host meets responsibilty to do this. All of the other stuff is pretty straight forward.
There have been many USMS registered masters swimmers thru the years that have gone to USA meets of all types and have broken USMS records and they have been published everywhere. But because the paperwork was not done, those swims go basically ignored in USMS.
