Why is it that Masters level swimmers who participate in USS sanctioned meets under a separate USS registration can't have their times automatically qualify for USMS rankings and USMS National records? What is the reason for this separation? The rules with USMS and USS seem parallel enough to allow USS swims to qualify under USMS ranking and records. Do we care if elite older swimmers in their 30's (say Gary Hall Jr.) effectively end up owning the USMS national record by default? Is USMS afraid of merging to closely with USS? Why wouldn't USMS want to recognize the true best performance by and old man/women in the pool regardless of whether their card said USS or USMS on it?
John Smith
Leo:
Did FINA sign off on this about having swims from dual sanctioned meets count for World Records? I can see how it would meet the requirements because it would have a dual sanction and thus be considered a Masters meet. I just remember 10 years or so ago that they did not want to accept times from meets like Olympic Trials, Nationals, etc because they didn't like the fact that it was not considered Masters Swimmng but more like Swimming because it was only inclusive to what USA requirements are even if the swimmer was USMS registered. Meaning that you would have to make time cuts and it would not be open to all masters swimmers like masters meet are. I also heard and I am not sure if its true, that other FINA federations do not count swims by masters swimmers in Swimming events and can only count times done in Masters competition toward masters records in there Federations, similar to what FINA does now.
This is interesting because I never thought of the dual sanction and how that could be acceptable to FINA as a Masters meet. I wonder what Walt Reid thinks about this? He was involved heavily with this back then as he is today and this would be quite a change from the policy they set 10 years ago and I believe they still follow. I do remember reading about how these competitions were inclusive to certain individuals that made time cuts in non masters competitions but this was before FINA had time cuts for the World Championship meets, so today even in FINA meets it would not be open to every masters swimmer and that arguement would be out the window today.
One more thing, I noticed you said that USMS swimmers can swim with the kids in a USMS meet so they have the advantages of both. Does this mean kids can swim in USMS sanctioned meets if they are just USA registered because of a dual sanction with both USA and USMS? I always thought it was for USMS swimmers to swim in USA swimming meets and not USA swimmers to swim in USMS meets without proper registration meaning they would have to be 18 to swim via USMS rules. I am thinking you meant USMS swimmers can swim with the kids in USA meet and not USMS meet? Or am I reading this wrong.
Leo:
Did FINA sign off on this about having swims from dual sanctioned meets count for World Records? I can see how it would meet the requirements because it would have a dual sanction and thus be considered a Masters meet. I just remember 10 years or so ago that they did not want to accept times from meets like Olympic Trials, Nationals, etc because they didn't like the fact that it was not considered Masters Swimmng but more like Swimming because it was only inclusive to what USA requirements are even if the swimmer was USMS registered. Meaning that you would have to make time cuts and it would not be open to all masters swimmers like masters meet are. I also heard and I am not sure if its true, that other FINA federations do not count swims by masters swimmers in Swimming events and can only count times done in Masters competition toward masters records in there Federations, similar to what FINA does now.
This is interesting because I never thought of the dual sanction and how that could be acceptable to FINA as a Masters meet. I wonder what Walt Reid thinks about this? He was involved heavily with this back then as he is today and this would be quite a change from the policy they set 10 years ago and I believe they still follow. I do remember reading about how these competitions were inclusive to certain individuals that made time cuts in non masters competitions but this was before FINA had time cuts for the World Championship meets, so today even in FINA meets it would not be open to every masters swimmer and that arguement would be out the window today.
One more thing, I noticed you said that USMS swimmers can swim with the kids in a USMS meet so they have the advantages of both. Does this mean kids can swim in USMS sanctioned meets if they are just USA registered because of a dual sanction with both USA and USMS? I always thought it was for USMS swimmers to swim in USA swimming meets and not USA swimmers to swim in USMS meets without proper registration meaning they would have to be 18 to swim via USMS rules. I am thinking you meant USMS swimmers can swim with the kids in USA meet and not USMS meet? Or am I reading this wrong.
