Lower Back Pain and Flip Turns

I swim with a woman who struggles with back pain, and when she has flair ups, she cannot do flip turns. I think it depends on your injury, or cause of the pain. for me, flip turns don't bother me, but there are times, that fly does. I can feel my balance being off when I am out of whack also.

I'm not convinced the lower back pain is caused by flip turns. I sometimes get a sore back when I first start doing long course training, and since there are fewer turns, they obviously aren't the problem. I think the back pain can be caused by swimming with the lower part of the back too concave (i.e., lordosis). The solution is to swim with a straighter spine. Work on contracting the abs and trying to maintain a neutral position in the water. That's just my total layman's opinion and might not be worth anything. Doing flip turns with a sore back does hurt, though. I know I have problems doing them when my back hurts, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are responsible for the back pain in the first place.

Sometimes I whip my legs over when I do a flip turn, and thereby strain my lower back. If I concentrate on tucking my chin to my chest and bringing my knees to my chest, the problem tends to resolve itself. The last time I did this it took about 2 months for the pain to disappear completely. But doing a flip turn wrong can definitely mess your back up.

Originally posted by Sydney Sometimes I whip my legs over when I do a flip turn, and thereby strain my lower back. If I concentrate on tucking my chin to my chest and bringing my knees to my chest, the problem tends to resolve itself. The last time I did this it took about 2 months for the pain to disappear completely. But doing a flip turn wrong can definitely mess your back up. I would like to avoid repeating the same mistake before it is too late. Can you please explain a little bit more? Let's divide the flip turn in two phases: 1. Roll the leg over the water to approach the feet to the wall 2. Feet contact the wall and push off. If I understand you well, phase 1 is more dangerous in relation to back pain? I thought that would be rather the explosive push from the wall or slamming the feet to the wall that would hurt more. But I might be wrong. Thanks in advance for any help.

Where I have had back pain on flip turns is when I do them incorrectly and, just like Sydney wrote, whip my legs over. The whip movement is done by bending at the waist (like in a pike position) and then throwing the legs over with very little knee bend. It feels like a big, powerful movement but really isn't very speedy. I like to think to myself "tuck and tumble" as I approach the wall to remind myself to spin in a ball. I've never felt any pain on the push off. I think maybe the key is to make sure your body is in a neutral position (not twisted, feet square with hips, back not arched) but that is just a guess. .

Ditto to whay aquaFeisty said. It's the flipping over rather than the push off that messes my back up. I will also say that when I do the turns correctly, they actually stretch my back and make it feel better -- kind of like knelson alluded to in his comment.

Originally posted by tulclark Are flip turns bad for your lower back? In a word: Yes. They are especially bad if you have the same progressive injury that I do -- bulging disc. As my chiropractor would tell me, flexion is the enemy. An activity that involves curling the back (such as a flip turn) will exacerbate the problem. The cure, it turns out, is doing excercises in the opposite direction, such as are done in the McKenzie Method. The antidote excercise for bulging disc is like a push-up except your hips stay on the ground, so that you extend the back and push the disc back where it belongs. After years of back trouble and giving up flip turns, I finally got my mind right and starting doing my "McKenzies" every day. Since then my back has improved greatly. I still limit the number of flip turns I do in practice -- I mean come on, you only need one good one in a 100 LCM free! ;) I'm just glad I can do them at all! Good luck!

Thank you friends for your advices. Especially aquaFeisty for the detailed explanation.

Originally posted by Kim Tarnower In a word: Yes. Thanks for all the helpful advise! Kim I hate to admitt it, but I think I'm probably suffering from the same problem as you........ bulging disc. I had an MRI a little over a year ago and it did reveal a "small broad-based central protrusion" between L4 and L5. I've noticed that bending over for extended periods of time, seems to aggravate my problem. It would make sense that flip turns would has well. I'm just going to have to swallow my pride (ego) and stop doing flip turns. Oh well, in the overall scheme of things, this is a small problem to deal with. Thanks again for your time in responding to my question. :)

The cure, it turns out, is doing excercises in the opposite direction, such as are done in the McKenzie Method. The antidote excercise for bulging disc is like a push-up except your hips stay on the ground, so that you extend the back and push the disc back where it belongs. Good advice...I'm out with a broken hand at the moment...I'm inspired to put this into my dry exercises.. NB: The other big danger in the flip turn is to turn short and hit your heels on the wall.Not only are you already vunerable but the extra jar can pop the disc out...I did it in backstroke once.