Elite vs. Fitness

Newmastersswimmer: You're hitting a hot button on this one. While I agree with you that a slightly smaller faster run meet would be more appealing to the participants, I have run into many who feel that Master nationals should not be put on the same pedestal as USS Nationals. That is, many believe that Masters nationals should be more low key in terms of entry times to allow more fitness oriented swimmers (not just competitive or elite swimmers) to also participate. Personally, I say we shrink the meet, raise the meet entries $5.00 or whatever is necessary and get the meet done at a decent hour every day. If you can't make the cut off time then swim at your regional or state meet instead. John Smith

Newmastersswimmer: You're hitting a hot button on this one. While I agree with you that a slightly smaller faster run meet would be more appealing to the participants, I have run into many who feel that Master nationals should not be put on the same pedestal as USS Nationals. That is, many believe that Masters nationals should be more low key in terms of entry times to allow more fitness oriented swimmers (not just competitive or elite swimmers) to also participate. Personally, I say we shrink the meet, raise the meet entries $5.00 or whatever is necessary and get the meet done at a decent hour every day. If you can't make the cut off time then swim at your regional or state meet instead. originally posted by the Evil/Good Smith That may be true John, but notice that I covered my *** by first posting a quote from you talking about making the qualifying times faster for Masters Nationals.....that way if I catch any flack about my post then I can safely pass the buck off onto you.....and then claim that you were the one who started the topic not me.....see how easy it is to shield oneself from that kind of heat?.....Actually I only suggested "slightly" modifying the qualifying times....having slightly faster qualifying times should only provide extra motivation for those swimmers who were already on the bubble with the current qualifying times....while at the same time not putting the new qualifying times out of reach for those same swimmers who are already on the bubble.....Everyone knows that there has to be some kind of line in the sand....whats wrong with moving that line just a little bit to the right?

I'm not sure I see the point of lowering the qualifying times if they are not going to be enforced. As it stands now, anyone can enter three events without a qualifying time. The other thing to keep in mind is that only a fraction of those who do qualify actually enter the meet. Regardless, I don't consider the current qualifying times in my age group (45-49) easy. I suppose it's all a matter of perspective, since I'm not "elite." But it's taken me quite a bit of work over the past three years to make the qualifying times that I have. If the times are lowered further, which they will be before I age up, I'll just have to work a little harder.

You don't need to sell names- there are Industries that have sponsored other sporting events that are ready to jump at the opportunity to sponsor Masters Swimming.............. They just have to be OKd. Bottoms Up!

Pools with slides and no room for lap swimming........it is all about money. When our park district made this decision, they could not be convinced that a competive pool, with the slides could make money, they went for the water park deal, hook line and sinker, and now our area is without any 50 meter pools to swim in, and not much water space at all. Swimmers do not seem to have the same pull to get facilities built, probably because our facilities are more expensive to build and maintain than say, a baseball or soccer field.

There are a couple of points of view in this discussion (and probably lots more in between, too). I'd like to look at them for a moment. One way of thinking is those who have their club and their pool time, and yes they would like to see more pools and more options for themselves. However, they are also concerned that if the sport gets more popular without more pool space, they will have to contend with more crowding and they have mixed feelings about this. Thus, they might desire slower growth that matches pool builidng projects. Another school of thought is that the sport can't get too big because more swimmers means more clout means a better chance of more pools. On the other hand, a stagnant population of swimmers will lead to no new pool construction and/or new pools being dedicated to rec swimmers and water slides, and a decline in both lanes for masters swimmers and in the number of masters swimmers. I'm inclined more towards the latter view, but I acknowledge the reasonableness of the former. Now that I am done being broad-minded, let me indulge in a rant-du-jour. One factor that can drive fewer pools, pools designed more for water slides and rec swimmers, and just plain less pool time is boorish behavior by masters swimmers, and in particular the individual lap swimmer who thinks the world owes him "his" lane, at a time and place of his chosing. Emmett Hines riffed a couple of years ago in this forum about how individual lap swimmers (i.e. pool members who work out on their own, not part of any organized group) are the bane of his existence and cause a disproportionate percentage of his headaches as a pool manager. Complaints about lap swim times and temporary suspensions so other events can take place, demands they be expanded a half hour in either direction to fit one person's schedule, complaints about pool time being "wasted" on fitness class and other activities, demands that rec swimmers--during time slots set aside for rec swimming--be kept away from whatever portion of the pool the lap swimmer wants to use, etc. etc. Just last week, our water polo group ecountered a prime example of lap swimmer chutzpah. Once a week for an hour and a half we gather to play at one pool (out of two on Base). Depending on how many people show up, we may use more or less of the pool. Last week was a little light, so we used about half of the deep end for "half-court" play with one net, leaving half the lanes open for the full length of the pool and all of the shallow end. One dude was unhappy with the prospect of circle swimming, so he jumped in just on the water polo side of the lane line. We were OK with that. About half way through our game, he stops, thanks us for sharing part of the pool with him (as if he even asked us whether it was OK for him to jump in on our side), and then attempts to direct us to stay out of his way now because he was on his main set. In the interest of avoiding an argument, we did not respond to his remarks, and at tried somewhat not to get in front of him. I wonder, how many lap runners would try to appropriate part of a basketball court currently in use, and how many black eyes would result from such an attempt. One comment on cut times for Nationals: those who are in favor of hard cuts times to reduce the size of Nationals tend to be those swimmers who are fast enough that they are fairly certain of still being allowed to compete. This is how the term "elite swimmer" has become something of an ambiguous, derisive term in some people's minds. Those who figure they won't make a Nationals cut tend to have a less sanguine point of view. So I guess my general point is that we in our sport can have a tendency toward narcissism, and I hope we all keep that in mind and try to be respectful and cooperative with others when we discuss pool availabilty. Matt

As one who serves the North Carolina LMSC as an officer, I am proud to be a fitness swimmer who is in favor of rapid development of USMS (rather than slow or limited development).

Beware the power of the Smiths, whether Good, Evil, Bad, or just plain Ugly . . . On Monday, despite not feeling particularly elite, I checked the elite/growth box. After all, I have competed in a whopping 2 meets now, and USMS seems like a nice, well-run organization which deserves to grow. At Tuesday practice, I had to share my lane for the first time in 6 months. Same thing today, with a different lane mate. Curse you, Smiths all. I don't know how your powers managed to reach all the way out here to sunny Oregon, but if I change my vote, can I have my lane back?

At a minimum we have 4 people per lane at my team. Anyone who gets a lane by themselves should throw themselves on the ground by the swim god altar and thank the heavens. I'm so used to circle swimming that on the rare day I swim by myself and have a lane to myself, I still circle swim for a few laps by mistake.

Geek- which name of yours would they be selling?