Elite vs. Fitness

Talk about optimal conditions: as reported elsewhere The Coral Springs Nationals Beer Garden is planned at the tennis center adjacent to the pool (a minute or two walk from the competition pool). It will be open for both lap swimmers and those in the top 10.

I appreciate this (recently) healthy discussion. I have to make a point regarding the statement "Nationals and optimal conditions for fast swimming: that is one value, but there are lots of others in USMS." I agree there are other values (like getting lots of people involved), but I don't think they are or should be in competition with what I take as a given, that if you are putting on a swim meet and timing the races, you want to optimize the conditions for fast swimming. There are a number of levels of swimming that I don't and never have qualified for, to preserve optimal conditions for better athletes, and I don't feel put out. I'll cross that bridge regarding USMS nationals if/when I get to it.

This poll really bothers me. Why can't USMS move to build its membership with both competitive swimmers and lap/fitness swimmers. I believe that would be the ideal job for the E.D. once one is hired. The E. D. positon is probably the best thing USMS has ever done. It should really show us a great change in the organization of the organization and the steady continuation ofthe goals established by the executive committee and Board of Directors. I wish that I had more of the background for the position. I woudl have loved to have gotten it back when I was younger.

Steve, Just responding to a couple of your points. I don't necessarily disagree with you; I'd just like to look at them from a different angle: Nationals and optimal conditions for fast swimming: that is one value, but there are lots of others in USMS. I'm not sold on the idea that Nationals need to be about that one thing. My feeling personally is that I get a thrill out of swimming in the same meet with the likes of the evil Smith twins. Don't you get a thrill when Rowdy Gaines or Gary Hall sign up for USMS Nationals? Wouldn't you feel a little put out if more 20 and 30 something World Class swimmers started showing up for USMS Nationals, and wanted to toss you out of the meet so they could have "optimal conditions"? Self run meets: correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of years ago didn't Tall Paul and a few of best USMS swimmers in the Western States start calling out other swimmers of their caliber and invited them to attend a blazingly fast USMS event in Mission Viejo? (I might be wrong about the site of the meet, but I'm pretty sure it was in CA.) It seems to me this kind of thing can happen, and may have already, when the best of the best all agree among themselves they will all show up for this meet because it's "important" (because they have all agreed to show up). It could be Nationals; it could be any dang meet that strikes their fancy. The Tall One has also tried to drum up interest in a third, SCM National meet in the late Nov/early Dec timeframe, with limited success. You are absolutely correct in observing that USMS works hard finding organizations capable of hosting a meet the size of Nationals, and crazy enough to try. Adding a third National meet of that size would strain the volunteer resevoir in USMS, perhaps beyond what it can sustain. Why, however, do we need another three-ring-circus like USMS Nationals for the best of the best to get together? Matt

Peak Performance Age: OK, its probably over 18, but where would you say it is? 25? 30? Can you show anything to back that up statistically? (it will take more than mentioning a small handful of names of people that have done PRs over that age). What is the distribution of open-age WR times? I think that the theoretical "handicap" curve is pretty flat from 18 to maybe up to 40, but then it has a more noticeable slope. In the flat parts, it can be overcome by other factors, but that does not make it invalid, does it? Nationals Seeding: Its not about watching races, but making optimal circumstances for fast swimming, which I believe is closer races for the fastest swimmers, regardless of age. Self Run Meets: we can't get more than one bid for nationals now, its a pipe dream to think that we could either put on such a meet or if we did that we could attract the competition (I wish I were wrong.) Maybe it is possible but would take a number of years to catch on, but I guess that is what got USMS here today...I still think that USMS could and should make that happen a lot faster.

Re; seeding for Nationals-ABSOLUTLY KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS. I go to nationals to swim head to head with the best in my age group. I certainly don't go to watch close races. I doubt many people watch any heats at nationals that don't have a friend or teammate or someone REALLY fast in them.

What about the self produced solution? What if anything is stopping a like minded group from renting there own fast pool in a nice location? Then setting mandatory and provable qualifying times or restrict the heats. Do a little marketing to get the fast boys & girls out etc. I don't know of anything in USMS rule book that would prevent this or stop sanctioning. You could still set records and get Top Tens.

On drafting in a race, I've done it myself and I still disagree, but really don't care. Re my 25+, 30+ agegroup idea being harsh against younger folks, that is the intent, if harsh = realistic. If you consider age a race time "handicap" in the golf score sense, and you agree that it is monotonically increasing with age over 18, how can you argue any other way? My use of the word "ageism" may not be right. I don't like the effect of cutting all the competitions into enough pieces so that everyone is a champion or gets their own record.

Originally posted by Steve Ruiter I think we should change all the age groups to 25+, 30+, 35+, ... and report results that way Boy, that's pretty harsh on the young swimmers, isn't it? After all they have to beat everyone, regardless of age. The older swimmers only need to beat those their age and older. Catch my drift on this? It sure doesn't seem to defy "ageism" in my book.

Originally posted by Steve Ruiter and you agree that it is monotonically increasing with age over 18 I certainly don't agree with that. I'll agree that when you get to a certain age it's probably difficult to better your personal bests, but that age is significantly over 18.