Successful TI Swimmer

Originally posted by gull80 Are you implying that her NCAA performance is good enough to validate her age group TI program, but not good enough to validate Dave Marsh's Auburn program? The way I see it, she is an NCAA finalist who does not train using TI techniques. I was not implying anything actually. Take what I said at face value. She swam a faster 1650 before Auburn.

Originally posted by thewookiee One question then...Why? Why not? There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate over swimming subjects on a swimming forum. If anybody is not interested in reading about it, just don't click on the link.

Ah, the irrationality is as satisfying as it is predictable. Frankly, the discussion fora had become a little stale lately. Gull-meister, please note the delicious circularity of your argument. "TI stinks because it has never produced a world-class swimmer." Well, how about Adrienne Binder? She seems to be pretty fast. "It has to be Auburn, and not TI, because I have already demonstrated TI stinks." Seriously, my point is a very small one. I'm not saying TI is great for everyone, or trying to change anyone's mind on whether they like it or not. You're entitled to your opinions. I'm just trying to thoroughly stomp on the misleading chestnut that holds, "TI can't produce world class swimmers." The right swimmer, with the right coach, and years of training and practice, can become world class using TI principles. It can and it has worked, so let's please take that part of the argument off of the table. Matt the Troublemaker

I have never, ever said that TI "stinks." What I have said is that it is more appropriate for novices, lap swimmers and triathletes. In point of fact, Terry Laughlin admitted on this forum that this is his target audience. Adrienne Binder does not train in a TI program. She trains under Dave Marsh at Auburn. It was suggested (in this forum) that she failed to make the Olympic team in 2004 because she was no longer training using TI techniques. Now you argue that TI is responsible for her success at NCAAs in 2006? Perhaps you should change the title of the thread to Successful Swimmer.

I have a question, Does the TI program provide assigned sets, send off times, workout structure, recovery supplements, sleep, as well as teach swim technique? Perhaps both TI and Auburn share in her success? TI provided the technique and Auburn built the engine?

You know I hate to bring up old threads. Adrienne Binder, a self described Total Immersion swimmer have things changed and how is she swimming now.

Perhaps we are also limiting our definition to exactly what TI is. Certain things which TL talks about (energy efficiency, ability to shift gears, decreasing resistance, core recruitment) are important ideas especially for a distance swimmer. All of those ideas need to be adapted into a given person's stroke, she could very well incorporate parts of TI theory into her strokes while still allowing lots of other aspects in.

It’s not the style of swimming that is responsible for success. I remember when Janet Evans broke American and World Records using a straight arm recovery. You could call her straight arm recover (not to be confused with a straight-arm underwater pull) a “style” of swimming. Her style didn’t make her fast but her underwater stroke mechanics most assuredly is responsible for her success. If a swimmer can make their body more streamline as they swim, it will help them become more efficient. So, like most good coaches in the world, TI promotes improved streamlining (excellent!) but that’s it! I know Coach Marsh uses a catch-up stroke drill (A TI affirmation) but it’s very important to know that he uses the drill for the purpose of teaching swimmers how to “set-up” their strokes to get into a “high-elbow” position. TI teaches a reduction of stroke rates by exaggerating the prone / streamline position which is provides comfort for swimmers. There are noticeable arm positions in TI freestyle swimming that pause or delay effective propulsive positions. Any pause or delay of effective propulsive inertia hinders swimming speed. I am awed by the wonderful marketing that TI does but to use TI as a model that improves speed at world-class levels seems flawed. I keep reminding people that 16 of the 20 Gold Medals and 43 of the 60 Medals won in Athens were with a “high-elbow” or Early Vertical Forearm Stroke. If seeing is believing, simply watch the underwater videos of world-class freestylers, backstrokers, breaststrokers and flyers; EVF isn’t a style but a propulsive position that even TI swimmers must get into. TI is great and it’s wonderful because it’s making swimming easier to learn but it’s a teaching tool and it should be kept at that. Debates about how to improve swimming speed should not be looked at as unhealthy but as wonderful examples of passions worthy of bantering. I think we’ll see that certain fundamentals of fluid mechanics cannot be avoided and must be taught, reinforced and refined for every swimmer. There are simply better ways than others to swim faster and debates like this give swimmers chances to see all sides and make their own decisions. Good Luck, Coach T.

The catch up drill has been around for over 60 years. We did not call it a drill it was just called catchup swimming. It is not a recent invention.

George, What kind of drills do you like and use?