Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

Former Member
Former Member
I am slow, and when I mean slow, I mean slow. I can do a 26 sec 50 with fins, but without I come in just under 1:20! I think a big part of it is just taking the fins off and doing a lot of kick sets to learn to feel the water better with my feet. I have a good breaststroke kick so I don't think my problem is an overly weak pair of legs, although they could be in better shape. Also, myankles are fairly flexible as I can point my toes and make my feet bend backwards past an even position with my shins. However, I do think that I need to loosen up my ankles when I kick. I feel like I get more out of my kick for those brief moments when I allow my ankles to snap back and forth with my kick. I think I actually need to relax more to kick faster as weird as that sounds. I suppose the answer to my question is that I simply need to take of the fins and do kick set after kick set until I learn to feel the water better with my feet and become more efficient.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    ill now: 3/1: 30.2 This time: 1/10: 25.98 Haven't been at the pool much the past month. First, work ramped up. Then I had a mole removed from my back - seven stitches, no swimming for two weeks. Then my wife had a one-week business trip, so I had to watch the kids. Even so, that's a big step in the wrong direction. Much better than where you were a year ago. A month out of the water is a near term set back, but in a few weeks, I think you will be seeing 24s again.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Hey, first thanks so much for all your input on this issue. I'm a 54 yr old guy out of competitive swimming since age 22....been a general fitness guy and powerlifter/Olympic weightlifter for many years who'd really like to return. Also a horrible flutter kicker but good (honorable mention All-State) sprinter back in the day who just figured kickers are born not made and didn't do much about it. But this thread has piqued my interest. Ande, 3 questions!: One: if form determine's function...what are the limiting factors determining kick power that have some kids kicking circles around others ...each with little training??! Second: you have folks on your program with impressive kicking improvements....could we get some kind of data indicating how well these kicking times translated into swim times ?????! Third: I have a new pair of 'positive drive' fins...is there any value to using them to 'recruit and condition the freestyle kicking muscles exactly as the finless kick would' as they espouse?! Thanks so much
  • you're going the wrong way think you need to start over are you doing the training sets or just testing each week? ande Till now: 3/1: 30.2 3/8: 28.0 3/15: 27.12 3/22: 27.62 3/29: 26.27 4/4: 27.18 5/10: 25.55 7/2: 25.45 7/6: 24.94 7/26: 25.92 8/10: 23.48 8/12: 25.24 9/6: 23.08 9/20: 24.05 9/27: 23.21 10/4: 24.37 10/11: 24.49 10/25: 23.70 11/1: 24.89 11/8: 23.63 11/29: 23.66 12/6: 24.00 12/14: 24.30 1/10: 25.98 This time: 1/18: 23.90 Back on the path of righteousness!
  • Ande, 3 questions!: 1) what are the limiting factors determining kick power that have some kids kicking circles around others ...each with little training??! ~~~> i've written about this in Swim Fast Faster many factors come into play foot size, flexibility of foot and ankles, hyper extended knees, body shape, kicking technique, feel for the water with feet and legs / DPK, but improving boils down to self image and work ethic on kicking sets, If a swimmer believes "I'm a horrible kicker." then they don't try on kicking sets and because they don't try they don't improve. If you want to improve your kick you have to push your limits on kicking sets. 2) you have folks on your program with impressive kicking improvements....could we get some kind of data indicating how well these kicking times translated into swim times ?????! ~~ ~ ~> if you read through this thread some people have posted their kicking and swimming times I also think it is helpful to do the speed swimming sets too 3) I have a new pair of 'positive drive' fins ... is there any value to using them to 'recruit and condition the freestyle kicking muscles exactly as the finless kick would' as they espouse?! ~ ~ ~~ ~> I don't use much equipment other than suits, googles and caps, I do sit on kick boards between sets. I do think that kicking sets with fins can be helpful for swimmers. Dive into this kicking program and start posting your times I also stress the kick integration process As you get faster do further kicking sets These sets will help swimmers get speed first so eventually the kick challenged can make 50's on 1:00 ande
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Till now: 3/1: 30.2 3/8: 28.0 3/15: 27.12 3/22: 27.62 3/29: 26.27 4/4: 27.18 5/10: 25.55 7/2: 25.45 7/6: 24.94 7/26: 25.92 8/10: 23.48 8/12: 25.24 9/6: 23.08 9/20: 24.05 9/27: 23.21 10/4: 24.37 10/11: 24.49 10/25: 23.70 11/1: 24.89 11/8: 23.63 11/29: 23.66 12/6: 24.00 12/14: 24.30 1/10: 25.98 This time: 1/18: 23.90 Back on the path of righteousness!
  • q, you're getting in better shape congrats't think you are following what I suggested people do you are embracing the princliples of working your kick hard and getting your times At some point I want you to warm up then get your time on an all out 25 kick One question is: how far is your hand from the end of the board? if there's a big diff consider stopping the watch when your hand touches the wall. 1/23/09: 22 on the last 25 of a 400 kick. I don't have the pool space I had before January, so I have not been able to do my test set recently, but I have been stretching my ankles, kicking hard without fins during the kick sets, and kicking throughout the entire workout. My kick endurance has improved considerably. Today's kick set was actually after the main set. I am trying to drop down an interval, so the main set was actually on a 100 pace that was faster than I can handle. I am very happy with that 22. All my times are with a kickboard. I use a kickboard to normalize my timing, so I don't use my arms for anything but holding the board, and the clock stops when the board hits the far wall.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Set: 8x : 25k sprint, 50 ez Goal: 8x 25 sprint k under 20, 50ez between each 12/8/08: 20 (1st) to 25 (last) 12/10/08: 20,21,21,24,21,21,22,23 12/12/08: 19,20,20,21,21,23,22,21 12/15/08: 18,21,19,22,21,21,22,23 12/17/08: 19,21,19,21,20,21,22,22 -- Started using the same clock for timing instead of 2 clocks 12/19/08: 21,21,21,20,21,21,21,21 12/22/08: 21,21,21,21,20,21,21,21 12/24/08: 19,19,19,20,21,21,21,21 1/23/09: 22 on the last 25 of a 400 kick. I don't have the pool space I had before January, so I have not been able to do my test set recently, but I have been stretching my ankles, kicking hard without fins during the kick sets, and kicking throughout the entire workout. My kick endurance has improved considerably. Today's kick set was actually after the main set. I am trying to drop down an interval, so the main set was actually on a 100 pace that was faster than I can handle. I am very happy with that 22. All my times are with a kickboard. I use a kickboard to normalize my timing, so I don't use my arms for anything but holding the board, and the clock stops when the board hits the far wall.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I don't think you are following what I suggested people do you are embracing the princliples of working your kick hard and getting your times At some point I want you to warm up then get your time on an all out 25 kick I am probably following 80% of your kick training suggestions. No, I am not following your benchmark tests suggestions at all. Pool space has become so limited that I am not benchmark testing at all. One question is: how far is your hand from the end of the board? if there's a big diff consider stopping the watch when your hand touches the wall. My hands are at the curve of the board. When I miss the wall and the lip of the board enters the gutter, my fingers get smashed. I try not to do that.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Starting over: 1/25: 25.32 Here are my workout sets. They are 25 yards on my back, separated with an EZ 25 kick on my back. The EZ kick takes about a minute. 35, 37, 40 (I think - lost the time on my Ironman) 37, 37, 35
  • not so your training kicks need to be faster closer to that 25 Starting over: 1/25: 25.32 Here are my workout sets. They are 25 yards on my back, separated with an EZ 25 kick on my back. The EZ kick takes about a minute. 35, 37, 40 (I think - lost the time on my Ironman) 37, 37, 35