Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

1269 By popular demand :), an attachment, best as I can figure out this morning. . . If you click on it a few times, you'll see an image that shows declining times through spring and summer, then no change since about August. During summer, I ride my bike to 3 miles or so to the train station, and I put the bike away around the end of August, when the days get shorter. (Don't like riding dark busy streets at 5 a.m. By killing you, one groggy trucker can really give your training regimen a setback.) Lately, I've been doing more leg presses/lifts at the gym. I still spin a couple of times a week.

Terry, My demonstrably fastest times (measured by me) came after strenuous mountain backpacking trips, which work the legs (chiefly) and core without mercy. First day back in the pool I fly. The deconditioning effect is noticeable by day 4, and after 2 weeks I am back to my usual slow slog. Conversely, strong aerobic work in the pool before I hit the hills enables me to get up them feeling less taxed. So, I do believe there is a strong crossover effect between my two favorites. I have a sneaking suspicion that kick sets slightly derail the neurological whole-body training to swim the full stroke, but I do them anyway, as there seem to be other advantages. My legs would happily be free-riders if I did not chastise them. :) For what it's worth - and some will disagree - I believe that cycling conditions and strengthens your legs for cycling. Running ditto for running. And kicking sets do the same for kicking sets. Other than anecdotally I'm not aware that anyone has ever demonstrated that kicking sets condition and strengthen the legs for how the legs interact with the rest of the body in whole stroke. On the other hand, it would be difficult to argue the premise that swimming whole stroke will condition and strengthen all parts of the stroke - the kick included. .

Terry, I'd love to the try the experiment you propose, but it wouldn't be a fair test, because of my circumstances. RC problems have forced me to cut back a lot on my swimming and increase my kicking. That means a trial set today would be slower than a couple of months ago, and it might have nothing to do with failing to integrate the kick with the rest of the stroke. It might be a good experiment in a couple of months, when I've had a chance to build my stroke back up. Also, I think there's merit in your statement that cycling primarily helps cycling and running primarily helps running, etc. I think that's particularly true with well-conditioned athletes. Believe me, I'm not one of those. I'm a 6-foot-2 male. After all the kicking and cycling, I can move 170 on a leg extention, about five pounds more than I weigh. I can leg press 300. Up to now, anything that strengthened my legs improved my kick. Sixteen months ago it took 1:40 to kick 50 yards on my back. (Yeah, I timed myself even back then. I think I used a Sports Illustrated calendar.) At that speed it's easy to get discouraged. Changing the type of exercise makes it more interesting when you are in the 'baby-step' phase, as I was. I particularly liked spinning because the bikes are constructed so that no one in the class knows how much resistance you are pedaling through. You can pedal as fast as the jock next to you and neither of you really knows who is doing more work. Under these circumstances, I find it easier to challenge myself and not feel embarrassed. I consciously work on integrating the kick into the stroke. I will have to do more. When my kick gets to 20 seconds for 25 yards - maybe next spring if rtodd is correct :bliss:- I plan to step up my efforts at kick-swim integration. Thanks, all, for the encouragement and generous advice.

Is your kick small & shallow? Try to kick down & UP! Do work on the hamstring machine to improve the up kick.

I haven't done the set Gary mentioned exactly, but remember doing a set where we kicked like that at the wall for maybe ten seconds then immediately pushed off and swam a fast 50. I'll tell you what, it's a lot different experience than trying to sprint a 50 with fresh legs!

Can we start a similar thread for the breaststroke kick? I am completely lost, and yes, I have watched video, read books, and I still stink.

Here is a great kick set and one you probably haven't done since you were 5 years old, playing in your back yard pool. I promise that you will wish you hadn't read this when you finish. By the way, this set is great because you can do this in a hotel pool anywhere in the world and get a decent leg workout. By the way, kicking sets should not be designed to be the "social" time of workout, as once commonly believed. Put both hands of the wall, in view of a pace clock (if no one is around to time you). Keep your arms outstretched and head down in the water, lifting only to breathe. This reminds you to keep your head down while swimming. You can kick either flutter or dolphin, or mix them up (but not during each one) You can use fins or not....just remember that kicking without fins requires a much faster tempo than with. Very different stroke rate. Now do 5 sets of one minute, 45 seconds kicking as hard as you can....as if you are trying to move the side of the pool over one inch. Kick so hard that your leg muscles burn for the last 15 seconds. After 45 seconds, you get 15 seconds of rest and guess what? Do it all over again. Five time. I guarantee that the last (5th) kick will be the longest 45 seconds of your life. And then you will truly hate me. Good luck! Gary Hall Sr. www.theraceclub.com

Till now: 3/1: 30.2 3/8: 28.0 3/15: 27.12 3/22: 27.62 3/29: 26.27 4/4: 27.18 5/10: 25.55 7/2: 25.45 7/6: 24.94 7/26: 25.92 8/10: 23.48 8/12: 25.24 9/6: 23.08 9/20: 24.05 9/27: 23.21 10/4: 24.37 10/11: 24.49 10/25: 23.70 11/1: 24.89 11/8: 23.63 11/29: 23.66 This time: 12/6: 24.00 1273 A little slower than last week. The dinky chart, once you follow the link, shows that the three-test moving average moved below 24.0 seconds, which is good. However the latest test has moved above the moving average, which means I have to work harder next week.

Here is a great kick set and one you probably haven't done since you were 5 years old. . . . . . . . .Now do 5 sets of one minute, 45 seconds kicking as hard as you can....as if you are trying to move the side of the pool over one inch. Kick so hard that your leg muscles burn for the last 15 seconds. After 45 seconds, you get 15 seconds of rest and guess what? Do it all over again. Five time. . . . . So I tried this set this morning, in honor of my fellow IU alum. Learned a lot about my conditioning: 1) Couldn't go more than 30 seconds. So I kicked 30 and rested 30. 2) The second 30 seconds were the fastest 30 of my life, as in "Oh, God, it's time to start again."

So I thought my flutter kick was horrible, but I was wrong, it is just bad. What is horrible is my kick endurance. So I am here to work on my kick with the legions of Ande followers. I did 8x 25 sprint kick, 50 EZ swim, just stopping long enough to get my time after the kick, and then resting until the next 10 to start the next kick. yards, with board. 12/8/08: 20 (1st) to 25 (last) This was my first test of 25s, and I was happily surprised, since I cannot hold 50s kick on a 60, nor have I ever been able to. Goal: 8x 25 sprint k under 20, 50ez between each My kick has always been slow, so it will be interesting to see if this sprint progression training plan will get me to decent 100 and 200 kick times. I am confident this program will make a big difference in my kick.