Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

depends how you define elite a fast kick is part of the whole stroke it takes serious training to sustain a strong kick we're all trying to improve our personal best times only a few on these boards have a shot at breaking world records Just one more comment. How many on here are top elite swimmers? Do you think the kick is more important than whole stroke technique for the most of members? How many are trying to break world records for the sprint?

World record or best personal time or masters top 10 time, does it really matter? If you want to be swimming the best you can, you need to not be dragging your legs. As a former sprinter--I was recruited by colleges because of my kick specifically. The coaches would call and tell me that if everyone on their team kicked like I did he would have a ton of national qualifiers and one hell of a relay team. Like SwimStud said before, when I work my kick, I tend to pick up my arm speed and dig deeper, because your whole body is working and all the muscles are engaged. Now I swim mid-distance more than drop dead sprints (200 and 500) and my biggest challenge has been keeping my kick going for 20 laps, because theres no way in hell that I am going to be my fastest until I can maintain a nice hard, steady kick for at least the majority of the 500. Since I started swimming the 500 this season I have really concentrated on sprint kicking off my walls and past the flags and I have found that even though I am staying under longer and working really hard for those 10 or so yards off each wall, I have greater staying power and less fatigue at the end of the race. I personally think kicking is one of the most important aspects of your race and one of the biggest factors when people drop times.

I still believe the legs are for balance and when you are swimming fast the legs must kick fast while you swim fast or they would not balance your arm stroke. Legs to me are still not the driving propulsion part of the stroke the upper body is. What is the upper body when I say upper body. I mean from the hips up. The lower part of the body to me is the legs. Kicking should involve much more than just legs -- it includes everything below the chest -- but let's leave that for now. If what you say is true -- that legs provide balance but no propulsion -- then putting tennis shoes on (which float) should have very little effect on swimming speed in the open water (ie, apart from pushoff & SDKs, where legs/kicking are clearly the dominant propulsive forces). Give it a try and see. Especially butterfly. (And I know that my legs are also working hard when I am swimming backstroke, but others' mileage may differ.)

When you get to see me swim I will defy you to say my kick is not a good kick. A good kick is important for any sprinter, not just WR holders.

george, you still don't get it, you've made your point over and over in this thread starting with forums.usms.org/showpost.php this thread exists to help people who are poor kickers improve their kicking speed and ability, when they do they dramatically improve their swimming times Look at Donna forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php George, quit hijacking this thread go start your own kicking is a total waste of time thread better yet I started it for you forums.usms.org/showthread.php here's the facts the fastest swimmers in the world are fast kickers they do kick sets daily the best coaches in the world assign kick sets Michael Phelps wants to improve his kick and he's one of the best if not THE www.nytimes.com/.../25swim.html here's Paul Smith's take on kicking forums.usms.org/showpost.php many people have read this thread followed the advice and become faster kickers and improved their swimming times. This thread exists to inspire people To plant the idea that they can be faster swimmers it shows them how This thread is for people who want to learn how to kick faster and swim faster. Ande ps I've been working on improving my kick when this thread started I tested a 25 SDK and went 11.2, recently I've been going 10.8's & 10.7's off the side mid season there's elite swimmers who can go 9 low READERS: If you're a slow kicker, You can improve your kick Here's how and when you do you'll swim faster TRY IT, APPLY IT and post your progress forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php forums.usms.org/showpost.php Therefore to me kick sets without swimming is a waste of time. I still believe the legs are for balance and when you are swimming fast the legs must kick fast while you swim fast or they would not balance your arm stroke. Legs to me are still not the driving propulsion part of the stroke the upper body is. What is the upper body when I say upper body. I mean from the hips up. The lower part of the body to me is the legs.

george, kicking doesn't work for you there aren't any elite athletes who train 800 a day that's about 1/3 of warm up for many of them most train 6,000 to 12,000 I bet there are a few sprinters who do 2,500 - 5,000 I too would be cautious if I had knee replacement. these suggestions are for normal healthy people folks if y'all have surgeries or injuries, consult your doctors work with doctors trainers and coaches ande This whole thread is supposed to be about - My Flutter Kick Is Horrible! SDK is another subject. The dolphin kick done properly has excellent propusion I have gone as fast underwater using SDK as I have gone on top of water. When I raced in the old days I just could not do a lot of swimming do I have to explain why again? My workouts were based on about 800 yards a day. I was also a sprinter. My two races were 100free and 100fly. When I started swimming distance swims I was 29 years old. I found in salt water if I kicked hard, my legs barely stayed in the water. I am a very good floater. I also found when I swam a 10 or 15 mile race in fresh and over kicked I could not walk for weeks. So I think to kick 1000 yards fluttering the legs up and down is not for me. I will continue down the path of not doing kick sets in my workouts. Ande you seem to have success by kicking your self. Everyone here seems to agree that if you do kick sets you will win and maybe that is the reason you win. My two steel and plastic knees go pop, pop, pop when I try to flutter kick so there is no way I will Kick hard. When I fly, and I used to fly I tried to forget the the legs and they just did me fine. Ande you seem to be on a personal attack.

A good kick is important for any sprinter, not just WR holders.

This whole thread is supposed to be about - My Flutter Kick Is Horrible! SDK is another subject. The dolphin kick done properly has excellent propusion I have gone as fast underwater using SDK as I have gone on top of water. When I raced in the old days I just could not do a lot of swimming do I have to explain why again? My workouts were based on about 800 yards a day. I was also a sprinter. My two races were 100free and 100fly. When I started swimming distance swims I was 29 years old. I found in salt water if I kicked hard, my legs barely stayed in the water. I am a very good floater. I also found when I swam a 10 or 15 mile race in fresh and over kicked I could not walk for weeks. So I think to kick 1000 yards fluttering the legs up and down is not for me. I will continue down the path of not doing kick sets in my workouts. Ande you seem to have success by kicking your self. Everyone here seems to agree that if you do kick sets you will win and maybe that is the reason you win. My two steel and plastic knees go pop, pop, pop when I try to flutter kick so there is no way I will Kick hard. When I fly, and I used to fly I tried to forget the the legs and they just did me fine. Ande you seem to be on a personal attack.

Legs (Kick) asists in forward movement if properly integrated into the full stroke but are not a great propulsive force in the front crawl. (My opinion) Just to let you know that I do a little kicking here are a few of my workouts I even use flippers occassionaly. Day 2 - 1000 meter workout 200 Warm up 2 x 100, 25 Free, 25 Kick, 25 Arms only, 25 free, 10 sec rest 1 x 200 Free 20 sec rest 2 x 100 Free 20 sec rest 3 x 50 Free 20s rest 250 Cooldown Day 3 - 1000 meter workout 300m Warm up 100m Crawl, 50m Catch up crawl, 50m *** using dolphin kick, 50m Scull & flutter kick on the back, 50m Crawl. 500m Workout, 20 x 25m on 30 seconds, first 5 fly, next 15 crawl 200m cool down loosen up. Day 4 - 1000 meter workout 250 warm up front crawl bilateral breathing. 500 meter work out 10 x 50m crawl on 60 seconds 250 cool down very loose. Day 5 - 1000 meter Workout fins WU with fins 150m Crawl and 50m crawl kick 600m with fins Crawl 6 x 100 on 1:50 descending times 200m Crawl cool down no fins

i'm in aransas pass today through sunday guess I should have made that more clear where does bill barton coach ande I see in an ealier post you may see Bill Barton. Did you ever see him? I asked you if you saw him to ask about the shark at the Blocke Island Swim.