What stroke do you personally train the most?

Originally posted by botterud Maybe it's just me, but Swiminton I think you're confusing . . . or equating . . . an appropriate appropriate warm-up with training sets. Your argument re what sprinters should train (shorter distance, harder effort, more rest) is probably right . . . but that is a separate discussion from the right way to warmup. Your view that proper warm-up can be done in very short order is, in my experience, just plain wrong . . . . whether I'm doing a 2 mile ocean swim or short pool races . . . I need volume to get warm . . . as to all of my teammates. The exceptions are, of course, there . . . especially for newer swimmers who find 1,000 + meters/yards oppressive and who fatigue at those distances . . . but for experienced swimmers who are efficient in the water, more time is needed, sprinter or not . . . imho and in the opinion of the many fine coaches I've known. I posed my question because others suggested that one should do 1200 and sometimes over 2000 just for warmup, at a meet or a workout. Is that the right way to warmup? I don't know and I know a lot of people have been doing it that way for years. However, I am not convinced simply because it doens't sound very energy efficient. I think a lot of people let their yardage determine whether they have done enough warmup. Why don't you let your body tell you when you are ready? As soon as you feel you are ready, begin real training. I suspect that many people go beyond what is necessary for warmup. That takes away their energy for doing more intense sets during a workout, or better time during a race. If you had spent 10 minutes instead of 20 warming up at a moderate pace, you could have done 5 more intense sets later on.

Originally posted by swiminton But I doubt that short distance swimmers do such long warmups. I think you're wrong there. Sprinters probably warm up just as much if not more than distance swimmers. 1200 yards isn't really that much. We sometimes do up to around 2000 or so. This isn't all just slow swimming, though. Maybe the first few hundred is just to get loosened up, but from then on you'll probably be varying your speed including maybe some short fast swimming to get your heart rate up. And, yes, the vast majority of competitive swimmers at all levels will train more freestyle than anything else. I'm guessing even splitting 50/50 with another stroke is somewhat atypical.

Swiminton writes: "I posed my question because others suggested that one should do 1200 and sometimes over 2000 just for warmup, at a meet or a workout. Is that the right way to warmup? I don't know and I know a lot of people have been doing it that way for years. However, I am not convinced simply because it doens't sound very energy efficient. I think a lot of people let their yardage determine whether they have done enough warmup. Why don't you let your body tell you when you are ready? As soon as you feel you are ready, begin real training. I suspect that many people go beyond what is necessary for warmup. That takes away their energy for doing more intense sets during a workout, or better time during a race. If you had spent 10 minutes instead of 20 warming up at a moderate pace, you could have done 5 more intense sets later on." Dude, You acknowledge that you're new the arena. You've heard from those of us that have been swimmers for some good portion of our lives. You say "why don't you let your body tell you when you are ready?" What makes you think that we don't do that??? You seem more interested in challenging our views and experience than in absorbing what we have to say. Do what works for you dude. But but if you want to hear some voices of experience, spend a little more time absorbing the information . . . thinking about it . . . and challenge it when you have a basis for doing so . . . assertions and criticisms based on on uninformed and faulty assumptions are fairly worthless.

When I swim with the coached group I swim mostly freestyle as most of the people there are triathletes. When I swim on my own I swim a variety of other strokes. I find if I do too much freestyle my left shoulder will ache later in the day, but if I mix it up I don't have that problem.

Although I checked freestyle, the other three strokes aren't that far behind. Two days a week I do mostly distance. the other dauys are either sprint or stoke work. sometimes, when I feel really negative about how slow I am and want to prove it to myself, I'll do nothing but ***. It reconfirms all of my bad images!

I voted for breaststroke because I eat,sleep and live breaststroke,but it's inaccurate,because I swim free more than any stroke in workout(but when I swim free I am thinking of breaststroke.) I pretty much only swim *** at race pace so that it's programmed in for races. Wam up,cool down and aerobic sets are free. I swim some fly and some back for variety,but it's pretty much race pace sets *** and the rest free.

Originally posted by swiminton Honestly, neither you nor Kirk is a sprinter, so you shouldn't have assumed that sprint training is the same as distance training and tried to give advice on something you knew little about. This is a ridiculous and offensive statment. What makes you think we don't know how sprinters train? It's not like we're cloistered off in some separate pool where only distance swimmers are allowed. For some reason it seems like you think that a 2000 yard warmup means a straight 2000 at a slow pace, and this isn't what any of us (or at least me) is advocating. As both Matthias and the workouts I linked from Bob Bowman suggest warmups can and do include some longer swimming, shorter swimming including limited amounts of faster swimming, pulling, kicking, etc. I'll also point out that the section of Breakthrough Swimming you reference is discussing warmup before a meet, not necessarily in a training session. Also, Colwin does advocate a 20-45 minute warmup which would be around 1300-3000 yards for a typical swimmer. You poo-pooed the notion of doing 20 minutes of warmup earlier in the thread, now all of a sudden you're quoting Colwin who suggests 20 minutes as a minimum!

Originally posted by Matthias In warmup the longest "leg" we swim straight are 300m at the beginning, the rest is made up of 25, 50 and some 100's focusing on perfect form and even already pushing ourselves with some kind of "fartlek" games. So we have a really fast warm up and don't spent "Much miles on 10k pace" ;) Because warm up doesn't necessarily mean that you will swim it straigt and slow. Now that's what I call good information and good advice! This type of warmup make more sense for sprinters, as you are quickly already doing sets that resemble the distance that you typically swim and compete.

Originally posted by botterud Dude, You acknowledge that you're new the arena. You've heard from those of us that have been swimmers for some good portion of our lives. You say "why don't you let your body tell you when you are ready?" What makes you think that we don't do that??? You seem more interested in challenging our views and experience than in absorbing what we have to say. Do what works for you dude. But but if you want to hear some voices of experience, spend a little more time absorbing the information . . . thinking about it . . . and challenge it when you have a basis for doing so . . . assertions and criticisms based on on uninformed and faulty assumptions are fairly worthless. Dude have you ever heard that you can be doing something for years but you may have been doing it wrong all this time? Did you know that breathing into your armpit in freestyle used to be acceptable but now is considered wrong? Did you also know that wide wedge kick used to be considered THE kick for breastroke but is now replaced by whip kick? You are wrong. I do absorb things, but I just don't take everything I was told as gospel. You know why? When I started learning swimming, people at the pool said to me: "I have been a swimmer my whole life. This is what I do and what you need to do." I was then taught (by various people) to breathe on every stroke, do not kick in freestyle as kicks will tire you out, breathe into my armpit, draw your legs under your body as much as possible for breaststroke kick, etc, etc, etc. It wasn't until much later that I discovered that none of these are correct. I had to try very hard to get rid of these bad habits. From the very beginning of this discussion, all I was saying is that if you think 1200m - 2000m warmups are essential for sprinters, fine, but give me some logical and factual reasons why that's the case. Don't just tell me that's the way you have been doing it for years so it must be correct. Honestly, neither you nor Kirk is a sprinter, so you shouldn't have assumed that sprint training is the same as distance training and tried to give advice on something you knew little about. As someone else who is on a sprinter team pointed out, their warmup primarily consists sets that are similar distance to their race. Alos, go to page 148 and page 149 of Colwin's Breakthrough Swimming, you will see that he thinks sprinters should do sets of 25 and 50 for warmup, and distance swimmers should swim a few hundred yards to establish race pace. And yes I am new the arena, but fortunately, by keeping an open yet skeptical mind, I am only absorbing correct information. Now I am swimming faster than those who have been swimming all their life.

Originally posted by knelson For some reason it seems like you think that a 2000 yard warmup means a straight 2000 at a slow pace, and this isn't what any of us (or at least me) is advocating. And this is exactly what I have been trying to point out. Probably somewhere happened somekind of misunderstanding. Because even if we advocate long warm-ups we don't advocate to swim it straight. You have to modify it to YOUR needs. Sprinters will do shorter sets at some faster pace and distance swimmers will take some longer sets. So I guess we all are somehow of the same opinion. Don't let us get in a fight about sharing the same opinion ;) Brgds Matthias