Recruiting

Originally posted by Frank Thompson Mr Goodsmith: Now I read a lot of the posts recently and say Michael Heather's one makes sense to me to get on a team if the current one does not have representation at a National Meet. I know he swam for Mission Viejo and his wife actually did the records for the meet so I don't have a problem with that. Its the INTENT that matters. People in the last few days have provided evidence of INTENT of ethics regarding this issue. It does not take a rhodes scholar to figure the different INTENTS of what clubs and swimmers are doing. Correction: Michael swam for Rose Bowl Masters (the group he works out with). I swim on my own at Caltech, and competed as unattached. Haven't quite finished up the records for the meet, there were a lot.

Bill: First off thanks for providing the story. I do remember it last year. Back in 1988, I can honestly say I never heard anything about how forming this team was going to contribute to building an Aquatic facility from any of the USMS leadership or the swimmers that were swimming for the team. I am still looking thru my swimming archives because I remember I kept the a copy of the financial contribution sheet because I did make a small donation to one of the swimmers that I coach who was going even thought I did not like the concept of building this superteam and going around to the LMSC's and Clubs and recruiting swimmers from those Clubs. Even Tiger admitted that "We probably violated some of the principals of Masters Swimming, but we wanted to help those that needed help." First off, If you notice in my post I never said anything derogatory about Tiger Holmes. "The person in charge of the team is very well respected in swimming for his contributions and accomplishments and I won't deny that excellence." Tiger is inducted in the International Swimming Hall of Fame and I respect that. Who am I to question that excellence. That is why I did not name him in my original post because everything he stands for in swimming I appeciate except how this was set up and the methods that were used to do so. Like Matt Biondi and Eddie Reese who have been slamed on this website before, I will always come to respect the accomplishments of people in the ISHOF. My intention was to give Mr. Goodsmith an example of what went on 17 years ago and how some in the international swimming community feel about it. I am going to provide a commentary from Mel Goldstein that was published back in September of 1988 from the SWIM MASTER Newsletter about the upcoming World Masters Championships. "Many masters swimmers throughout the United States are preparing to attend the World Masters Championships in Brisbane, Australia. I personally think that it is deplorable that some of them are leaving their local LMSC to swim for a super team who has recruited USMS elite swimmers throughout the country. These swimmers have prostituted themselves for personal financial gain. I think that as United States Masters Swimmers this is a very poor image to portray of our country and organization. Since we are the largest Masters organization in the world, we should be trying to set examples, especially since we are going to be hosting two International events in the next 4 years. I personally don't understand why the recruiting is going on, since there is no team scoring in these World Championships. Masters swim coaches who condone this sort of activity and will allow their swimmers to return to their clubs upon the completion of the World Championships, are not helping the Masters Coaching organization seek the high level identity which it is striving for. This sort of recruiting adds more fuel to the fire as to why we should not have team scoring at National Championships."

I am totally against a"national" team for relays as it seems to me the bad feelings and resentment would be greater than any benefit. We have already heard how the foriegn swimmers will feel.The club swimmers who have their best swimmers siphoned off aren't going to be pleased either. Then what about the swimmers on the "national " team? How will the "A" relay be determined? Seed times? Most people make them up. Last years times? Lots of swimmers don't have great times the year before they age up. Results from the meet? This year the 50 Bk is after the relays. What about the 50 yr old flyer left off the 200-239 relay because,even though he/she was the best in the world the fast 59 yr old freestyler opened up a spot for a 41 yr old swimmer. It's just a lousy idea!!

Well, thanks for the info on San Diego.

Like I said before, I'm not saying it was right or wrong -- but I do think it's enlightening to know more about the possible reasons why Tiger Holmes assembled the team. Personally, although I wasn't involved with Masters swimming in 1988, I probably would've been inclined to criticize Holmes for assembling a super team. That concept, on its own, is a little distasteful to me. Without any other information, it comes across as a big ego trip. So, in that regard, I probably would've agreed with Mel's statement at the time. However, when I learned more about some of the other reasons for putting together the team, the story made me feel like it wasn't just a big ego trip after all. It was supporting a cause much larger than bragging rights, because those bragging rights were simply a vehicle to do something significant for the community. ~sb

I'm not talking about competitiveness. If there was a way to say "these are the 4 best in this age group let them swim" I might not like it, but I could accept it. It's not possible to determine whose best except at the meet and there is no guarantee the right events will be before the relays. George Schmidt and I are about the same age and about the same speed in the 50 ***. Top Times says I am #1 and he is #2 in the 55-59 age group. The only time we swam head to head he won. Who should be on the relay as we both are sure we are faster than the other?

Well, there will also be "bad feelings" left if you don't allow the swimmers that want to participate in this type of team event. Just let people do what they want to do. This is not that big of a deal to let happen. If some people want to swim with a faster relay for one measly international meet a year why is that so bad? No one is bribing anybody, no one is going to be forced into doing this. If they want to do it, cripes, let them do it. If they don't want to participate, then let them stay where they are. Frankly, I only see positives coming from this situation. Some people will get to swim on World or Natl. record setting relay and then come back and swim with their local teams that would have otherwise never had the chance. Local teams might even have membership increases by a few new heads if they enjoyed the ordeal and decided to keep with it locally afterward. As far as the relay choices are concerned. This is always a consideration and risk in this area. This is nothing new. Anyone can be bumped based on their speed or lack there of at any time. After all it's "competitive" swimming not open swim. I can assure you that most people will already know who would be joining in their age group relays and would have it mentally layed out before they agreed to join a new faster team for an intl. meet. As far as foreign opinion is concerned. I am surprised they don't do it themselves. It's their choice. John Smith

Allen, So what if you don't get picked ! Go and swim with these faster guys and hang with everyone anyway. I'd go even if I got knocked off the "A" free relay in my age group.... (Assuming my wife would let me go... :-) Hell, Rich Saeger, Paul Smith, Rowdy and several other potential sprinters could easily push me back to the "B" or "C" free relay in my age group. So what! Dude..... it's for fun. What if you DID get picked for the "A" relay and they set a record. You'd have a great time either way. In all probability, you'd know well before the meet if you were going to be on the "A" relay anyway. Besides you should do it to drink beers with new friends regardless of what happens on the relay selection. John Smith

San Diego has at least three clubs that compete out of the LMSC. SDSM is by far the largest, but there is also Heartland Masters in El Cajon and La Jolla has a club (maybe two) to which I do not know the exact name.

Methinks John has substantial holdings in brewery stocks. Foul tasteless watered-down brewerys, but stocks nonetheless.