Recruiting

Where did I say there is no value in swimming with the team? So we're going to play semantics and word games. Okay, Kevin, let's play. Where did I say you said that??? I said "If you think...." Different meaning then saying "You said..." But, your saying that the deal at Nova's or UCI or at the City Parks and rec. facilities is looking like a much better deal was rather strong judgement on your part as to the value of what you're getting at Nadadores. Seriously, if you are ashamed to be a nadadore, and think there's better value elsewhere, I strongly reccomend you jump on the opportunity to get a better value. What I take offense to is that you seem to think we are all complainers. And you've stated that on a public forum. Back to semantics and word games that you want to play. Who are "we all" and when did I say that "we all" are complainers? Please show me where I said anything about complainers. I think it's too bad that you appear to interpret my talking about marketing and economics of pool costs and running a team, and giving an example of my team's economics, as a statement about someone being a complainer, and take it personally, and take offense to it. If I recall correctly, you're rather new to the team, and really don't have a very good understanding of the underlying economics. One example, just how many people VOLUNTEER their time and effort, not because they HAVE to, but because they want to - to make your experience on the team more pleasurable. Sure, you can go to UCI, or to Nova... At UCI, the pool exists because of the university, not because Masters group is payng it's fair share. Nova's case is pretty similar to Mission. Bulk of the cost is paid for by the kids team. So, you tell me, You're all offended when I say that masters aren't paying their fair share... Why shouldn't all the swim parents be offended that you get to swimm at less then half price then their kids swim??? What's so special about you and the masters that they get to swim more workouts for half the cost??? I mean, other than most coaches and teams being afraid that masters swimmers just wouldn't be willing to pay for their fair share, and discount their prices so the masters programs would exist in the first place. Then some people wonder why there isn't more connection between Masters and USA swimming. Tell ya what, if I was a swim parent, Id be pretty pissed that masters get to pay half of what I pay for my kid, and they get to swim 2-3 per lane (at least on our team they do), while my kid swims 15 per lane, AND I have to Volunteer or my fees go up even more, while Masters don't have to volunteer. You may not know this, but a question masters on our team often ask how come we don't get better workout times, why we can't get a few lanes during more of a prime time. Guess what, those who pay their fairer share get the first pick. I'm sorry you're all offended and see it all as me thinking you're a complainer. My point is that economically, something is very wrong with this picture!!! I brought up the example of economics to in part answer Knelson's question about why we should bother to grow and popularize Masters swimming. Right now, if USA swimming didn't exist, the fees that masters are used to paying, and their numbers aren't enough to support the pools they want to swim in. I don't care what they're used to paying, or what their neighbors pay. If masters wants to exist long term, this course of people paying for barely half of the value theure getting needs to be corrected. An organization can't expect to live off the back of another organization or group forever. Then we wonder why pool operatoers are more interested in building waterslides... I bet a lot more people are willing to pay 10 bucks to play on the water slide for an hour or two then there are those willing to pay 10 bucks for a coached workout.

Where did I say there is no value in swimming with the team? So we're going to play semantics and word games. Okay, Kevin, let's play. Where did I say you said that??? I said "If you think...." Different meaning then saying "You said..." But, your saying that the deal at Nova's or UCI or at the City Parks and rec. facilities is looking like a much better deal was rather strong judgement on your part as to the value of what you're getting at Nadadores. Seriously, if you are ashamed to be a nadadore, and think there's better value elsewhere, I strongly reccomend you jump on the opportunity to get a better value. What I take offense to is that you seem to think we are all complainers. And you've stated that on a public forum. Back to semantics and word games that you want to play. Who are "we all" and when did I say that "we all" are complainers? Please show me where I said anything about complainers. I think it's too bad that you appear to interpret my talking about marketing and economics of pool costs and running a team, and giving an example of my team's economics, as a statement about someone being a complainer, and take it personally, and take offense to it. If I recall correctly, you're rather new to the team, and really don't have a very good understanding of the underlying economics. One example, just how many people VOLUNTEER their time and effort, not because they HAVE to, but because they want to - to make your experience on the team more pleasurable. Sure, you can go to UCI, or to Nova... At UCI, the pool exists because of the university, not because Masters group is payng it's fair share. Nova's case is pretty similar to Mission. Bulk of the cost is paid for by the kids team. So, you tell me, You're all offended when I say that masters aren't paying their fair share... Why shouldn't all the swim parents be offended that you get to swimm at less then half price then their kids swim??? What's so special about you and the masters that they get to swim more workouts for half the cost??? I mean, other than most coaches and teams being afraid that masters swimmers just wouldn't be willing to pay for their fair share, and discount their prices so the masters programs would exist in the first place. Then some people wonder why there isn't more connection between Masters and USA swimming. Tell ya what, if I was a swim parent, Id be pretty pissed that masters get to pay half of what I pay for my kid, and they get to swim 2-3 per lane (at least on our team they do), while my kid swims 15 per lane, AND I have to Volunteer or my fees go up even more, while Masters don't have to volunteer. You may not know this, but a question masters on our team often ask how come we don't get better workout times, why we can't get a few lanes during more of a prime time. Guess what, those who pay their fairer share get the first pick. I'm sorry you're all offended and see it all as me thinking you're a complainer. My point is that economically, something is very wrong with this picture!!! I brought up the example of economics to in part answer Knelson's question about why we should bother to grow and popularize Masters swimming. Right now, if USA swimming didn't exist, the fees that masters are used to paying, and their numbers aren't enough to support the pools they want to swim in. I don't care what they're used to paying, or what their neighbors pay. If masters wants to exist long term, this course of people paying for barely half of the value theure getting needs to be corrected. An organization can't expect to live off the back of another organization or group forever. Then we wonder why pool operatoers are more interested in building waterslides... I bet a lot more people are willing to pay 10 bucks to play on the water slide for an hour or two then there are those willing to pay 10 bucks for a coached workout.