Butterfly, Discussion on Overall Technique
I am going to reply to this post with my summary interpretation on fly technique but first I will describe where I am with the fly and how I got here.
About a year ago I casually decided to improve my horrible swimming "technique" and re-teach myself freestyle, back, and *** strokes. Somewhere along the line I started playing with the butterfly stroke too which was particularly helpful in making sure I got the most exhausting workouts. So far, my mission is to improve my enjoyment of exercise and make the best out of my limited opportunity for swimming which does not include any formal instruction (Masters would be fantastic but it's not in my near term plans.) In fact, my swimming season could end anytime now so I am taking this opportunity to record what I think I've figured out.
In reading older posts on this board, I came across a comment from someone who wrote: practice, study, practice, study, practice, ... That is what I've done. I've searched out advice on the net, downloaded and studied video, and taken a lot of notes. I haven't come across any type of consensus that the best video instruction or book to buy is "such and such" or found too much consensus on anything other that it's a hard stroke to learn. Other than for a couple of sources, info has come in bits and pieces. A personal instructor and film of myself would be great, maybe it will happen someday.
I began attempting butterfly without even having learned how to dolphin kick which is what I worked on first. After several workouts, I started getting the legs in control and could actually do some fast but very inelegant "butterfly" for up to 25 meters at a shot. My exercise routine has been pretty consistent in rotating two laps of each of the four strokes. I gradually started reading more info on the fly and I discovered I was supposed to be kicking twice instead of once. Initially, it seemed impossible to kick twice but (within a couple sessions) I worked in the second downkick by doing (what I thought of as a) "bunny hop" kick shortly after the first kick ended. For many a workout I worked on arm motion and breathing the most and took lots of notes in the evening. I was not getting the progress I was looking for which made me try even harder. Then I found that some recommend learning with one kick (but I wasn't going back to one now), and I realized the improper timing of my second kick but I was unable to do anything about it. I also discovered that some advice I had apparently misinterpreted had led me into unknowingly dragging my legs straight during part of the stroke. Then I wrote what I'll call my first brilliant rule of butterfly:
"You must learn to rhythmically undulate the entire torso properly for butterfly, and be able to control it, or you will not succeed. This is the first order of business. Do this and learning the rest is a matter of time and perseverance. Don't learn the butterfly undulation, and time don't matter."
Since then, I've been working on undulation almost exclusively. I am very bad at forcing myself to do drills for very long and for the other strokes I do not do any significant drills. For butterfly, I had been doing some isolated kicking and body movements and also plenty of non-breathing and slower motion butterfly. But it hadn't been helping enough. So I started swimming some more intense laps of just undulating and practicing undulating at the surface. Also, I've tried practicing with the arms recovering underwater instead of over and also swinging the arms over and under while applying little underwater resistance. No matter what I did, I found it hard to correct my fly undulation while pulling and the timing of the subsequent (second) kick. I tried mixing in a stroke or two of fly in the midst of a lap of otherwise plain undulation, but I found it too awkward to revert to anything else once got into a full fly stroke. In particular, as far as I can tell, plain undulation meshes with one kick and not two. I haven't yet tried alternating/mixing in other strokes (like *** and freestyle) with fly in the same lap or even one-armed fly. There are too many possible things to try and learn and none standout as best, so I prefer short drills, getting on with butterfly, and not overly interrupting the rest of my medley.
My breakthrough was in concentrating almost exclusively on undulation though the catch, pull, and push. I think of my body as pushing into an arc, but only in one segment at a time starting with the chest. First there is downward pressure on the chest, then the stomach, then the thighs, and then the lower legs. And by really exaggerating this motion I can finally change the pattern of my undulation. This also helps to loosen up my legs which was desperately needed. However, what I've gotten so far is a tiring jerky stroke with highly exaggerated undulation; but the sequence of my undulation seems to be finally on the right course. I've got a lot of smoothing and flattening out to do and it seems like I need work re-integrating my arm-stroke.
In reading earlier threads here, I found someone had posted a couple video frames of Phelps' stroke positions. I actually took the same source video file and extracted a few frames myself at the precise points of my interest (see attached jpeg). I am imprinting these positions into my mind and I intend to focus on executing these stroke points as shown. I looked at video of several other top swimmers (Ian Crocker and others including female) and I could find the same points of interest in their strokes. Phelps' head and trunk goes deeper below his arms than most others (but not all) and Phelps is one of few who breathe every stroke, but I think the stills of Phelps do the intended job.
Comments, arguments, ridicule, or advice on anything is welcome.
Parents
Former Member
Matt, I'm someone well versed in "divide and conquer." I got tired of getting things wrong so I worked extra hard in the end. Obviously, I still made some assumptions.
As far as having a target of "race or distance," I'm strictly distance and my immediate fly goal is: two laps so I have a sweet looking enjoyable 200 medley. And I want to feel good about myself when I watch Phelps and company on TV. I primarily want to race people I can beat so I won't be taking on Masters. For the time being. (Should a pool facility pop up in the immediate vicinity, it could be a whole new game.)
Two kick fly: I had an astounding swim for me on Monday. After having isolated my target positions (the Phelp's jpeg above), in particular those frames with the arrows (the entire body position is key in them), I got control of my undulation and suprisingly my legs too - beyond my wildest dreams for this point in time. I was able to be fully conscious of my legs at all times and in full control. I was able to be aware of them going up at the right time and well out of the water, not to mention being aware of my high butt position throughout the stroke. That second fly kick is now magic. Kicking at the right time makes recovery a breeze. No more difficulty recovering the arms, ever, that is, when the undulation is right. I don't think my legs ever tire and I can get terrific thrust out of that kick. Yet it's supple; I can't imagine doing without it. On the other hand, I have to defer to you until I can do a 200. Right now, I can see a good 50 is in reach. By the way, I'm not even close to being young. But not yet to the age where I'll start to lose strength.
" trying to shift back and forth between sprint and distance techniques."
It's not intentional. I do understand all of your points. Yes I think I am trying to satisfy both sprint and distance techniques at the same time. I think I'm doing that for all strokes, however amatuerish, except for breastsroke. Everything is now improving constantly except my breaststroke is at a standstill - it is my next stroke to require special attention - but, unlike all the others, it's gotten so mundane.
"Wait until you can do basic vanilla well before you start experimenting."
I agree and that has been my goal, most of the time. You are right about getting one source of info. However, I got afraid of going with one book when I discovered, midstream, that there were many approaches and apparent disagreements. I chose, maybe wrongly, to try to get the variety of opinion, look at video, and try what I think makes sense. There are advantages to both approaches. I've enjoyed trying to sort things out and certainly if it was possible for me, I would have gotten an instructor. Even though I generally hate drills. Which is another reason why I didn't jump at a book. They seem to be 99% drills. This is, admittedly, my weakness.
Woops:
"Drill: try some more one-arm fly. It is an excellent drill for the "pressing your chest" part of the stroke. A few years ago, Michael Phelps wrote an article for Swim magazine describing how he does it, and he also indicated it was his favorite drill."
I did once try one-arm for only one or two strokes but I guess I didn't understand what I was supposed to be accomplishing. Now that you've told me, and provided a great endorsement, I will try it for real next time. I had given up more quickly than some of the other drills because it appeared that it would take a fair amount of time just to master the drill. Some of this stuff seems like a catch-22. You need to learn how to do the stroke before you can do the drill and vice-versa. Some of it seems, well, experimental. If Phelps was doing the drill long after he mastered butterfly, then maybe the drill isn't so easy. (Darn, didn't you say little kids do it?) Anyway, how long should it take me before I can do the drill properly using the given explanation?
Matt, I appreciate your comments and I think all of your recommendations are very good. I will provide updates if I am able to continue swimming over the next several weeks (hard to say) and if I think I might be able to contribute. Thanks again!
Matt, I'm someone well versed in "divide and conquer." I got tired of getting things wrong so I worked extra hard in the end. Obviously, I still made some assumptions.
As far as having a target of "race or distance," I'm strictly distance and my immediate fly goal is: two laps so I have a sweet looking enjoyable 200 medley. And I want to feel good about myself when I watch Phelps and company on TV. I primarily want to race people I can beat so I won't be taking on Masters. For the time being. (Should a pool facility pop up in the immediate vicinity, it could be a whole new game.)
Two kick fly: I had an astounding swim for me on Monday. After having isolated my target positions (the Phelp's jpeg above), in particular those frames with the arrows (the entire body position is key in them), I got control of my undulation and suprisingly my legs too - beyond my wildest dreams for this point in time. I was able to be fully conscious of my legs at all times and in full control. I was able to be aware of them going up at the right time and well out of the water, not to mention being aware of my high butt position throughout the stroke. That second fly kick is now magic. Kicking at the right time makes recovery a breeze. No more difficulty recovering the arms, ever, that is, when the undulation is right. I don't think my legs ever tire and I can get terrific thrust out of that kick. Yet it's supple; I can't imagine doing without it. On the other hand, I have to defer to you until I can do a 200. Right now, I can see a good 50 is in reach. By the way, I'm not even close to being young. But not yet to the age where I'll start to lose strength.
" trying to shift back and forth between sprint and distance techniques."
It's not intentional. I do understand all of your points. Yes I think I am trying to satisfy both sprint and distance techniques at the same time. I think I'm doing that for all strokes, however amatuerish, except for breastsroke. Everything is now improving constantly except my breaststroke is at a standstill - it is my next stroke to require special attention - but, unlike all the others, it's gotten so mundane.
"Wait until you can do basic vanilla well before you start experimenting."
I agree and that has been my goal, most of the time. You are right about getting one source of info. However, I got afraid of going with one book when I discovered, midstream, that there were many approaches and apparent disagreements. I chose, maybe wrongly, to try to get the variety of opinion, look at video, and try what I think makes sense. There are advantages to both approaches. I've enjoyed trying to sort things out and certainly if it was possible for me, I would have gotten an instructor. Even though I generally hate drills. Which is another reason why I didn't jump at a book. They seem to be 99% drills. This is, admittedly, my weakness.
Woops:
"Drill: try some more one-arm fly. It is an excellent drill for the "pressing your chest" part of the stroke. A few years ago, Michael Phelps wrote an article for Swim magazine describing how he does it, and he also indicated it was his favorite drill."
I did once try one-arm for only one or two strokes but I guess I didn't understand what I was supposed to be accomplishing. Now that you've told me, and provided a great endorsement, I will try it for real next time. I had given up more quickly than some of the other drills because it appeared that it would take a fair amount of time just to master the drill. Some of this stuff seems like a catch-22. You need to learn how to do the stroke before you can do the drill and vice-versa. Some of it seems, well, experimental. If Phelps was doing the drill long after he mastered butterfly, then maybe the drill isn't so easy. (Darn, didn't you say little kids do it?) Anyway, how long should it take me before I can do the drill properly using the given explanation?
Matt, I appreciate your comments and I think all of your recommendations are very good. I will provide updates if I am able to continue swimming over the next several weeks (hard to say) and if I think I might be able to contribute. Thanks again!