You Know Your Flyundulater Is Failing When -

I demand to know how you knew all of this!..... have you been watching me swim!? ;)

It's absolutely worth it. Eight months into Masters, I'm finally getting snatches of what a decent fly feels like, and I don't think there's anything better.

Thanks for the report.. I am currently in the process of switching my old (incorrect) fly for the proper version. I feel like I'm having convulsions in the water half the time. I have no idea what it looks like, but it feels pathetic! lol... I'll keep at it though!

I feel your pain. I've been trying to learn since May with some, albeit limited, success. Every now and again (usually after a day of rest) I have a day when it all comes together and I'm actually swimming the stroke, at least for 25m. My latest breakthrough came this weekend. I decided on a whim to hit the pool Sunday, which is usually an off day for me. I didn't print a workout, and just did some warmup and stroke work, then decided to do some 100 IM's. Somehow I got to thinking about (this is hard to explain, sorry) the dolphin whip extending all the way out to my pointed toes, and "lengthening" my legs to provide a "platform" to get my torso up and out -- and voila! Instant rhthym. What a great feeling! And then yesterday the magic was gone entirely -- although I was pretty tired by the time I did some fly in yesterday's workout. And so it goes. The beauty is all in the challenge of learning something new and difficult. And it has worked wonders on my abs, which, being your typically vain middle aged male, I think is pretty cool.

Fly is all about the hips ... figure out how to keep them high in the water and viola, your stroke will feel great ... Lead with your head and let the stroke wash over your entire body ...

Keather- I tried leading with my head and letting the water wash over my head...and I went down like the Edmund Fitzgerald. BillS- you reached an epiphany; that was it, gone, never to be experienced again 'till the final butterfly Rapture. I've tried this insidious stroke all my swimming life, whether following published tips, close correction from a coach (including giving Richard Quick a glimpse of what 'hopeless' really means), building it up in little pieces, using flippers to 'feel' the right stroke ad nauseum. The fact is, for me, I do my best butterfly only under two conditions: I must be in really, really good shape (happens once every decade or so) & it must be in a race. Then I can fool most observers for a 50 or even a 100 & have had coaches say "where did that come from?". I don't have any idea.

I knew a butterflyer on our age group team who could manage a 53 second hundred when he was 16 years old. He couldn't train butterfly at all however. Anything over 5 or 6 lengths would cause a total meltdown because it was a power based stroke rather than rhythm. There are many accomplished swimmers who can do butterfly all day long because they have the correct rhythm. Keeping the chin down low...just skimming along the surface is very helpful in overcoming drag that occurs if the hips drop. I'll stick with my backstroke.

I forgot that one - true to form. I know all this because I watched you all the way from California! My "you know you're a" type list came all from my personal fly experiences. After several months of working on fly once or twice a week, I still haven't figured out the damn thing. However, I am finally getting much closer. I am a testament to what will likely happen to one who doesn't enroll in a Masters swim class. I apologize that my first post is a somewhat stupid corny one. I intend on pulling up an old discussion thread here on various butterfly technique. Hopefully, I'll get the time to organize my thoughts and experiences. Now that I got this solid joke post out of the way (I wrote and added a few lines to it each of the last three days), maybe I'll be able to get myself into the real discussion. I'm surprised there isn't even more discussion on butterfly technique here and elsewhere on the web. I'm assuming I've already found most of it (that which is free). In the last year, I've been swimming all four strokes most times out. I had never swum fly before and my breaststroke was oldstyle. Not to mention that my crawl strokes were very bad technique. Essentially I've been trying to learn all four strokes simultaneously on my own in one to three hour swims once or more often twice a week. I've had great progress except with the fly. The fly has been mostly an exercise in failure except that it has turned into a serious motivator. I love the challenge, and in the meantime, it is still superior exercise. I am now very fit for performing it; all I have to do is do it right. Which I will. A couple weeks ago, a neighbor friend said to me, "Why don't you give it up?" This should go to my Butterstruggle list! But I loved when she said that to me - I was the one who brought up my difficulties with the fly - she has seen me several times - and I had been getting worse - for me, I had to get worse before I get better. Perhaps, for most people, learning the fly is purely an endeavor of perseverance. I would love to be able to ride a unicycle or play the guitar. But the effort to learn is 100 times over not worth it for the unicycle and a 1000 times over not worth it for the guitar. The fly payoff IS WORTH IT 10000 times over. What would be funny is if everyone that even thought about swimming the fly and gave up, even with a one or two time weak effort, would describe their mental experience. Honesty or brutal humility required.

Originally posted by gjy for me, I had to get worse before I get better. Perhaps, for most people, learning the fly is purely an endeavor of perseverance. I would love to be able to ride a unicycle or play the guitar. But the effort to learn is 100 times over not worth it for the unicycle and a 1000 times over not worth it for the guitar. The fly payoff IS WORTH IT 10000 times over. Any time you make a drastic change to your stroke, you will get worse before you get better. You are comparing an optimized inefficient stoke, to a stroke with lots of potential but you are at the beginning of the learning curve.

Quote: "I knew a butterflyer on our age group team who could manage a 53 second hundred when he was 16 years old. He couldn't train butterfly at all however. Anything over 5 or 6 lengths would cause a total meltdown because it was a power based stroke rather than rhythm." I can relate to that because I am strong (albeit old) and I found rather quickly that I can do 25 damn fast even when I am swimming it all wrong. Quote: "just skimming along the surface" I think that's one of the keys to learning too. Backstroke is the one stroke I can literally do all day long too. Problem is that I tend to relax too much when doing backstroke. I have to quickly change to something else if I want to avoid a collision.