Can a woman beat a man in swimming?

In another thread someone said boys swimming is declining because of homophobia about wearing speedos yet provided no proof of this assertion. Now we get some nutcake statement that boys swimming is declining due to boys being afraid to lose to girls. Where's the prooof? Show evidence of this assertion unless this is simply your observation.

What is the point of this thread? I don't want to sound irritating but are you trying to stir up controversy? First it was picking on the triathletes and then it was the doom of USA Men's swimming. John, can't you start a thread of a positive nature. So out of this do we say that Rich Abrahams, age 60 can beat Kara Lynn Joyce in the 50 Yard Free? Anything is possible.

They have a version of this argument in the running forums--and guys who run have had cars go by w/ the beer drinking crowd throwing bottles and calling them "***." Maybe any individual pursuit where men and women can enter the same events, train together, etc., can provoke suspicion among the homophobic. Women athletes have had to deal w/ the labels too--to the extent that perhaps for a long time, girls were intimidated fr/ taking part in sports at all. The deeper issue is why should we be so judgmental about someone being gay to begin with? My 50something self doesn't care much if someone says I'm gay--b/c such a person is ignorant if s/he judges me or anyone by a gender orientation. It's harder for kids, especially around adolescence when peers can be cruel. But I think that adults need to model tolerance and help kids become more accepting of diversity, not insulate them from it. America has deified athletes in the big-time team sports such as football, baseball, and basketball--any participation by women tends to be reduced to a side-show. I'm not so sure I'd want this to happen in either running or swimming. As for women competing with men--one interesting point: in very long distance running events, often women can outperform men. A woman won the Badwater race outright twice--this is a 135-mile footrace from Death Valley to Mt. Whitney. Women have been in the top five in the 100-mile Western States race. The theory seems to be that women's potential in endurance sports has only just begun to be evident. Yet men still compete and I don't see any sign of their leaving the sport b/c of women joining the events.

"There is a long history of this. Look at many formerly boy-dominated occupations, such as nursing, secretarial, or elementary school teaching. Women start to participate, they are good, and the boys leave. Notice that the occupations I listed now have the presumption, by boys, as 'gay.' Not only won't they compete, but it is not 'manly' to compete." This is extremely true. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the office was originally seen as the new frontier for men, with the market place serving as a new arena in which 'Men' could aggressively compete against one another. The office place- in literature, anyway- was then represented as having been emascualated with the arrival of female employees, and therefore no longer the appropriate realm of real men (that was re-located to the manager's office, the country clubs and boxing gyms)... Or something like that. BTW- I swim on a predominately gay swim team, and honey, those men are fierce competitors. :p

I think it would be very close, but I'd take Lenton by a hair. Paul could probably kick her butt in a 50, though.

Originally posted by Allen Stark Come on, you can go to any Masters Meet and see younger women beating older men. Sometimes you see older women beating younger men. The egalitarian attitude is one of the great things about swimming. If I had my way colleges wouldn't have mens and womens teams just swim teams with mixed relays at every meet. I really want mixed relays at the Olympics and Worlds! Yes.. I would LOVE to see mixed relays at the Olympics and Worlds!! How fun!

Originally posted by FindingMyInnerFish My 50something self doesn't care much if someone says I'm gay--b/c such a person is ignorant if s/he judges me or anyone by a gender orientation. It's harder for kids, especially around adolescence when peers can be cruel. But I think that adults need to model tolerance and help kids become more accepting of diversity, not insulate them from it. I wish more people in this world were as mature as this! How True! You hit it on the head, descrimination against people for their gender orientation, looking different, etc.. is extremely childish behavior! well stated. :) This in itself is a testament to swimming and why everyone should admire it as the ultimate sport!.. how mature and cool all swimmers are! ah haaaaa!;)

Short course (100 or less) I'll take either Smith. Long course (100 or more) I'll take any female Aussie sprinter...Lenton, Henry, or Mills.

Phil, I don't own the 50 or 100 free records in my age group. Wouldn't you rather watch "the evil" Smith in this unlikely dual? As for women and mens teams training individually...... It can work either way. USS teams typically combine them and college teams typically separate them. Training for women, including taper, can be different, so there may not be as many reasons for combined training as there are opposed to combined training. I don't know that it hurts or helps the mens or womens team by training together. My suspicion is that it is probably more beneficial for a women to train with a faster male counterpart than vica versa. It's also probably more beneficial for male sprinters (200and below) to train with other men closer to their relative speed than with women. Distance event training may be a different story. In the end, it's all about yardage, pain and brain drain. Doesn't really matter who's in your lane. I've done it both ways. You have to get through it regardless. John Smith

Oh, that's me: think - think - think, and I always end up at the same wall . . . Wrong thread, I guess. Should have posted in the more serious thread you started. But, related to the subject of this thread, *and* my post, why don't *you* swim against Ms. Lenton, instead of setting up the older Smith for failure? Huh, boy? ;)